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To: tml@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin TML Mail),
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Subject: TML Bundle #351: Msgs 4257-4259
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TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
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Date: Sun May 31 21:00:22 PDT 1992
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #351: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
4257  28-May-92 popeet!wildstar@u Oh, No! More Wildstar! << Oh, No! More Wildst
4258  29-May-92 LTG3878@zeus.tamu Jump Shuttles & Tenders << In response to my 
4259  29-May-92 gwh@lurnix.COM    Why Navies Got Smaller? << Hans Rancke brough

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4257
Date: Thu, 28 May 92 23:37:52 EDT
From: popeet!wildstar@uunet.UU.NET (Derek Wildstar)
Subject: Oh, No!  More Wildstar!

Oh, No!  More Wildstar!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi, Everyone!  I'm back from what seems like a catastropic misjump.  Suffice
it to say that I was in limbo for about a month, but now I have a new place
to live and enough spare time to catch up on TML.  By the way, anyone who
wants to show up is invited to my housewarming on June 6th; I'm in the
Rockville, MD (Washington DC Metropolitan) area.  Send email to me for the
time and the directions (mail to wildstar@popeet.acs.com, and make sure the
subject line starts out "Directions to Housewarming" or somethin like that.

While I am thinking about it, how many TML-ers are planning on going to
Atlanticon in College Park (July 3, 4, and 5; see the ad in Challenge 60)?
Perhaps we can arrange a TML lunch, dinner, or other get-together during
the convention!  I can't get to Gencon/Origins this year, so Atlanticon
will be my major gaming event this year.  I am willing to co-ordinate and
serve as a contact point, so send mail to me (wildstar@popeet.acs.com) with
"Atlanticon" displayed prominently in the subject line.

Anyway, on to my topic for today's rants and raves:


Trade, Commerce, Taxation, and the Imperial Navy
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
People who don't appreciate detailed numeric analyses of game mechanics
should probably skip this article.  Given the longevity of this thread, and
the lack of complaints, I presume that there are very few people on TML that
fall into this category.


Recap for Those Who Came In Late
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I fed all of the sector data files (from the TML archive site) into the
mainframe at work, and had it crunch the data for a while.  I came up with
the following interesting statistics (these represent the Third Imperium at
its approximate peak).  The Empire contained 10,497 main worlds with a
population of about 16,731,817,153,000 sophonts.  The annual Gross Imperial
Product is 219,474,958,700,000,000 Imperial Standard Credits.  The Imperium
imposes a tax burden of about 1% of the GIP, producing Imperial revenues of
about 2,194,749,587,000,000 Imperial Standard Credits per year.

Using the TCS starship construction rules in combination with (hopefully
reasonable) assumptions about the types of ships constructed, I further
calculated that there are 11,813,221 starships registered in the Imperium; 
with an aggregate volume of 73,832,634,000 tons displacement.  The original
article, along with the supporting data tables to support my conclusions,
should be available from one of the TML FTP sites.  Recently, I have been
looking at some of these figures more closely.


Implications for Interstellar Commerce
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Assuming that these 73.83 billion tons of starships carry about 50% of their
volume as cargo or freight, we have 36.92 billion tons to allocate between
cargo and freight.  Since speculation should be much more lucrative than
shipping freight at 1,000 Cr/Ton, it seems reasonable to assume that more
than half of this volume will be used for speculative trade (let's assume a
figure of 75%). Some will be used for regular freight, and some will be
empty, despite the best efforts of captain and crew (I will assume that 5%
is empty, and 20% is used for freight).

A quick glance at the MegaTraveller trade and speculation rules shows that
profits of approximately 2,000 Cr/Ton are an acheivable goal, and that
considerable higher profits are possible.  Therefore, the cargo and freight
contribution to the GIP are:

Cargo --- 0.75 * 36,916,317,000 * 2,000 = 55,374,475,000,000 Cr
Freight - 0.20 * 36,916,317,000 * 1,000 =  7,383,263,400,000 Cr
                                  Total = 62,757,738,400,000 Cr

Passenger revenues are probably much smaller.  We can estimate these with
the assumption that 10% of the total starship volume is used for
passengers.  This results in 7.383 billion tons of passenger accomodations. 
We will further assume that 90% of these are staterooms and the rest are low
passage berths; resulting in 1,661,234,265 staterooms and 738,326,340 low
berths.  A starship will fill as many staterooms with high passages as
possible, and the rest will be middle passages (although some staterooms may
be empty).  A breakdown of 75% high, 20% middle, and 5% empty seems
reasonable.  A reasonable assumption about the low berths is that they will
be 90% full during a voyage.  Therefore we have:

High --- 0.75 * 1,661,234,265 * 10,000 = 12,459,256,000,000 Cr
Middle - 0.20 * 1,661,234,265 *  8,000 =  2,657,974,800,000 Cr
Low ---- 0.90 *   738,326,340 *  2,000 =  1,328,987,400,000 Cr
                                 Total = 16,446,219,200,000 Cr

This puts the grant total at 79,203,958,000,000 Cr per voyage.  I assume
that the average commercial starship makes one voyage every two weeks,
except for the 4-week maintainance period, for a total of 24 trips per year.
This means that in the course of a year, the total Imperial interstellar
trade contribution to the GIP is 1,900,894,900,000,000 Cr.  Therefore,
interstellar trade contributes 0.8661% of the total GIP.  This slightly less
than the tax burden imposed by the Imperium, and is in fact a such a small
fraction of the GIP that the complete cessation of interstellar trade should
cause no more hardship than a recession.

Reason for the End of the Imperium #542: It is more economically feasable
for member worlds to cease all interstellar trade than it is for them to
continue to pay Imperial taxes.  The Vilani merchant class (having been
duped by the magnitude of the numbers for 11,000 years) all commit
Hari-Kiri with their pocket calculators, leaving all the interstellar
markets a bloody mess.  Worlds that depend on trade and commerce starve, but
most of the former Imperium hardly notices the end of interstellar trade (a
Gross Planetary Product drop of under 1% is simply a passing recession).

On the average, 1 Imperial citizen in 442 takes an interstellar trip each
year.  Since there are quite a few that travel nearly every other week, this
probably means that fewer 0.2% of the Imperial citizens ever make an
interstellar voyage in any given year, and probably less than 15% have ever
left their homeworld in their lives.  

Similarly, the trade volume works out to about 0.05 tons (0.70 cubic meter)
of goods per year; given that this volume includes packing materials, this
would be approximately one or two consumer items. Since this is an average,
I believe it is safe to assume that more than half of the Imperial citizens
own or use at least one thing that was imported from offworld.  However,
given the volume of trade, it is very likely that these things are
novelties, data, or luxury goods of some kind.  At 0.87% of the GIP, I can
see no way that interstellar trade provides the economic foundation for more 
than a small fraction of the worlds of the Imperium.

One of the more disturbing results above is that the Imperial tax burden is
greater than the fraction of the GIP due to interstellar trade.  There are
some changes I can think of to bring these results back into line.  Most
desirable would be to redesign the entire ship design, trade, and commerce
rules; this would be a non-trivial effort, but should result in a great
improvement the whole game.  Another option might be to increase the
commerce volume by a factor of 10 (making it about 8.66% of the GIP). This
option might not be unreasonable, and would have the Imperial tax burden at
about 11.55% of the volume of interstellar trade.

A better idea (at least in my mind) would be to take a different approach.
Reducing the Imperial tax burden by a factor of 10 would also be reasonable.
One approach to this would be to assume that the Imperium taxes worlds on
the basis of their interstellar trade.  This would place the burden of the
cost of the Imperium directly on those worlds that benefit the most.  It
would also provide a reason why evasion of customs would be an Imperial
crime.  A reasonable tax rate would be 10.00% of the volume of trade.

This would place Imperial tax revenues at 190,089,490,000,000 Imperial 
Standard Credits per year.  A possible breakdown of these revenues into
expenditure categories might be as follows (remember, I just made these
numbers up; they also don't match the numbers I made up the last time I
did this, so feel free to re-arrange them as you see fit).

Category           Percent  Budget (Cr)
- -----------------------------------------------
Naval Estimates      46.83   89,018,908,000,000
Army Estimates       13.71   26,061,269,000,000
Scout Service        22.04   41,895,723,000,000
Other Expenditures   17.42   33,113,589,000,000 
- -----------------------------------------------
ALL                 100.00  219,474,958,700,000


The Size of the Navy
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Of interest to recent discussions is the size of the Navy, and the portion
devoted to internal anti-piracy and similar duties.  A possible breakdown
of the Navy budget might be as follows:

Naval Estimates            Percent  Budget (Cr)
- ------------------------------------------------------
Personnel and Recruiting      8.21   7,308,452,400,000
Bases and Facilities         41.55  36,987,356,000,000
Warship Construction         14.74  13,121,387,000,000
Maintainance and Refit        6.44   5,732,817,700,000
Imperial Marines             19.01  16,922,494,000,000
Research and Development      3.21   2,857,507,000,000
Other Expenditures            6.84   6,088,893,300,000
- ------------------------------------------------------
ALL NAVY                    100.00  89,018,908,000,000

Approximately 13.1 trillion credits are spent each year on new
construction.  It seems reasonable to assume that new ships will see at
most 50 years of front-line service before being retired to reserve fleets,
placed in storage, sold into civillian service, or broken up for scrap
(depending on the condition of the vessel).  These ships will need to be
replaced by new construction.  Therefore, the Imperial Navy contains a
total of about 656,069,350,000,000 credits worth of front-line warships.
The Imperium probably has an equal number in storage and reserve fleets.  An
possible breakdown of the ships into types is presented below, with an 
average cost per ship to help aid in estimating the size of the fleet.  The 
per-ship costs are an estimated average from FSSI (I know, they are both
wrong and inefficient - but FSSI is "official", so go figure).

Battle Line refers to battleships, battlecruisers, battleriders, and 
battletenders.  Screen refers to the screening forces for the above, namely
cruisers in all shapes and sizes.  Fleet escort refers to destroyers and
fleet escorts designed to work with the above classes.  Assault ships are
the planetary assault vessels: carriers, troopships, and assault cruisers
of various kinds.  Support vessels are the tankers and auxiliaries to 
support the battle fleets.  Anti-Piracy refers to ships designed and deployed
specificly in the anti-pirate and anti-raider role.

Ship Class       Percent  Budget (MCr)          Cost (MCr)   Ships
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
Battle Line        53.50  344,436,641,000,000   1,500,000      230 (*)
Screen             17.50  114,812,140,000,000     125,000      918
Fleet Escort        5.00   32,803,468,000,000       7,500    4,374
Assault            10.00   65,606,935,000,000      50,000    1,312
Support             5.00   32,803,468,000,000      75,000      437
Anti-Piracy        10.00   65,606,935,000,000       2,000   32,803
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
ALL               100.00  656,069,350,000,000

(*) Note: the cost of a "battleship" varies greatly, even amoung the
designs presented in FSSI.  The actual number of ships is probably much
larger, especially if the bulk of the fleet are the more efficient designs.

Of these, 7.69% will be in refit at any given time, and (assuming that the
Navy personnel turn over an average of once every 12 years) about 8.33%
will be in a training cycle.  A ship will typically not be patrolling in
the same system as its base.  A reasonable assumption is that the bases are
an average of two jumps from the patrol area, so a ship will spend about 4
weeks of non-refit, non-training time in jumpspace.  Once on station, the
ship will spend about 1 day in 30 refueling and about 7 days in 30
reprovisioning, laying over, or on shore leave for the crew (a total of
about 26.67% of the time).  This leaves about half of the force available
at any one time (in wartime a lot of these layovers and shore leaves would
be cancelled, and much training and preventative maintainance curtailed, 
resulting in a much higher availability).  This compares favorable with
similar figures for the Pre-WWII peacetime US Navy, which spent about 60%
of its time docked at its bases.


Anti-Piracy Forces
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What all of this boils down to is that about 16,402 ships will be dedicated
to the anti-piracy role and actively patroling at any one time.  This is
more than one per world in the Imperium, but it is more likely that the 
forces will be concentrated.  If it actually takes about 12 ships to
completely secure a world against piracy, only about 12.74% of the worlds 
of the Imperium can be secured at any given time.  It is likely that many
worlds are constantly patrolled (those with naval bases, important lines of
communication, and important trade centers), while some worlds never see
a patrol ship.  Most worlds will fall somewhere in between, being patrolled
on a random basis, or as the need is felt.  Many of the other worlds (those
with class A or B ports) will construct their own defense forces.

A quick and dirty game mechanic for determining the presence of a patrol
force around a given world might be:
	1) The world is HiPop, or a TL9+ class A or B port.
	2) Contains a Navy or Scout facility.
	3) Is on an X-Boat route.
If any of these conditions are met, the world is automatically patrolled by
a a force of the referee's choosing (one suggestion is 2d6 patrol vessels).
If none of the above are met, the system is patrolled on a roll of 11+
	DM +2 for starport class A or B
	DM +1 for starport class C
	DM -1 for starport class E
Other DMs for special circumstances (such as recent outbreak of pirate
activity) are at the referee's discretion, as is the size of the patrol
force, although again a 2d6 roll is recommended).


Starship Construction
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
One of the main obstacles to larger merchant ships is the economics of ship
building.  As detailed in Trillion Credit Squadron, a ship under
construction uses shipyard space equal to its displacement for the entire
time it is being constructed.  This rule does not seem to have been changed
in MegaTraveller.  Because larger ships take longer to construct than
smaller ones, this means that the "cost" (in terms of shipyard space) for a
10,000-ton ship is more than twice the cost of fifty 200-ton ships.
Shipyard space represents capital; the owners of the yard will want to make
the best return possible.  Therefore, shipyards will want to build smaller
ships (certainly under 10,000 tons, and the smaller the better).  Small
vessels (perhaps under 1,000 tons) can probably be produced on speculation,
while larger ships will not be laid down without a firm contract in hand.

This means several things to players and referees.  First of all, it means
that smaller ships would be more numerous than any other type. Small ships,
both new and used, would also be readily available for purchase by
corporations and anyone else who could raise the necessicary financing. 
Secondly, these ships would be built to standard, general-purpose plans;
because the buyer and intended purpose would not be known beforehand. 
Finally, large ships are more likely to be custom-built, special-purpose
things, and are likely to belong to the military or the larger
corporations.  Given the high cost and long delay in acquiring these ships,
player characters are not likely to have them.

I also feel that the price of a starship should be considered to be in local
credits, as this (quite correctly) makes lower-tech ships cheaper than their
high-tech successors.  For those who don't have the relevant Classic
Traveller materials, the following chart sums up what you need to know (the
number in the body of the chart is the multiplier for the final price):

	Tech	Port	Port
	Level	A	B
	--------------------
	20	1.50	1.45
	19	1.40	1.35
	18	1.30	1.25
	17	1.20	1.15
	16	1.10	1.05
	15	1.00	0.95
	14	0.90	0.85
	13	0.80	0.75
	12	0.70	0.65
	11	0.60	0.55
	10	0.50	0.45
	 9	0.40	0.35
	 8	0.30	0.25
	--------------------


Cheaper Merchant Ships
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To make larger merchant ships more prevalent, we need to improve the
profitability of larger ships (at least as compared to small ones); this
makes them more economically feasable and offsets the high economic cost of
their construction.  One way to do this would be to provide a special 
discount for merchant vessels (and to think of a reason that it should not 
apply to Navy and para-military ships).

My suggestion is that ships built to "civilian" standards be eligible for
a price break of 50% (yup, half; I haven't flipped my lid - keep reading).
The price break represents a general lowering of standards in many of the
ship's systems.  As an example, because the ship is not intended to sail
into harm's way, a $35 space-spec SCR can be substituted for the $75
mil-spec component, with no real loss of passenger or crew safety.

To be eligible, the ship must meet all of the following criteria:
	1) Maneuver rating of no more than 2g (and less than the TL limit).
	2) Jump drive must be rated at less than the TL limit.  In other
	   words, to qualify a ship must be a TL10+, and Jump-1 at TL10 and
	   TL11, Jump-1 or -2 at TL12, Jump-1, -2, or -3 at TL13, and so on.
	3) Agility must be 0.
	4) No more than 1 hardpoint per 1,000 tons displacement or fraction
	   thereof.  No bay or spinal weapons allowed.
	5) No armor above the minimum required for a spaceworthy hull.
	   Planetoid hulls are allowed, but buffered planetoids are not.
	6) No screens allowed.
	7) No launch facilities or launch tubes allowed.

The primary game effect of such a design is that the yearly maintainance
is a much more critical task.  If for any reason the maintainance is skipped,
the referee should accelerate the timetable (count one week past maintainance
as two, and so on).

If one of these "civilian" designs does get into combat, the referee should
adjust the damage table results to reflect the much lower damage tolerance
the civilian design has.  As a general rule, increase the damage results to
their maximum possible (for example, increase a "Maneuver-1" result to
"Maneuver Drive Out", "Computer-1" to "Computer Out", or "Fuel-1" to "Fuel
Tanks Shattered").  This should tend to keep these ships out of combat
except as a last resort (if the lack of armament doesn't already do that).


More Expensive Weapons
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Compared to a starship, weapon systems are small and cheap.  One way to
change this would be to modify the method of allocating hardpoints.  My
suggestion is to design a ship, and compute the number of hardpoints
designated (whether or not they have weapons mounted on them when the ship
is designed).  Then divide the dispacement tonnage of the ship by the
number of hardpoints, and consult the following table:

                  ---- Hardpoint ---
Tons/Hardpoint   Cost    Vol     Mass
               
5,000 or more    0.005   0.010   0.020
2,000 - 4,999    0.010   0.050   0.100
1,000 - 1,999    0.050   0.100   0.200
  900 -   999    0.100   0.500   1.000
  800 -   899    0.250   1.000   2.000
  700 -   799    0.500   1.500   3.000
  600 -   699    0.750   3.375   6.750
  500 -   599    1.000   3.375   6.750
  400 -   499    2.000   6.750  13.500
  300 -   399    3.000   6.750  13.500
  200 -   299    4.000   6.750  13.500
  100 -   199    5.000  13.500  27.000
   50 -    99    6.000  13.500  27.000
   10 -    49    8.000  13.500  27.000
    1 -     9   10.000  13.500  27.000

Cost is in MCr; Volume is in cubic meters; Mass is in metric tons.

This way, large and relatively unarmed ships cost almost exactly what they
did before, but the 200-ton ship with two triple turrets costs
significantly more than before - an extra 10 MCr.  The cost, volume, and
mass are for special attachments and fittings for mounting the weapon.  The
main structural member and pressure vessel in a MegaTraveller ship is its
hull. Piercing the hull significantly weakens the structure, and
concentrates stresses; therefore additional structural members are required
at each point.


Design Sequence Modifications
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Another idea is to require crew workstations in addition to normal
accomodations for vessels with extended accomodations; I personally don't
feel that enough space is available in the control panels and living
quarters to make a decent bridge for a starship.  Ships with extended
accomodations would require the installation of a workstation as well as
accomodations for bridge crew, gunners, engineers, and carried craft
support crew.  In the first two cases, the workstation provides seating,
working room, and a place to mount the required control panels.  In the
second two cases, the workstation is not actually a control installation,
but consists of working space and areas to store tools and spare parts.


Combat Information Centers
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fighting ships (or vessels expecting a lot of combat activity) should have
a combat information center (CIC, also called by various other names, like
fire direction center or battle bridge).  The CIC is usually located in a
well-protected area of this ship, and contains computers, controls, and
workstations for a combat commander, sensor analysts, and battery
co-ordinators, communications operators and fighter controllers.  While you
can assume that the MegaTraveller rules include the CIC in the bridge, I
would rather not.  Use the following rules to compute the size of the CIC;
right after figuring the bridge would be about the right time.  

A workstation for the commander is required; it must have a control panel
and a control panel add-on (for additional data display).  If no add-on can
be installed (due to TL or other limitations), a manual situation display
must be installed (1 cubic meter, 0.001 Mcr, 0.250 tons) and a crewmember
provided to update it (one workstation and control panel of any type); this
provides in effect, a manual Heads-Up Display.  

Every target to be simultaneously engaged requires 10 control points (CP)
from a sensor analyst.  Incoming missiles engaged by active defenses do
apply to this total; count 1 "target" (10 CP) for each enemy ship which
fired missiles. Each analyst can have no more than 10 control panels and
one panel add-on; the effect may be multiplied by whatever computer has
been installed in the CIC.  Note that low-tech designs may require more
than one sensor analyst per target.  At least one sensor analyst is
required for all designs.

If the vessel has any battery (spinal, bay, or turret) weapons, 10 CP are
required from a battery co-ordinator for each one.  Each co-ordinator can
have no more than 10 control panels and one panel add-on; however, each
co-ordinator can control at least one battery, no matter how few CP are
output by the position.  At least one battery co-ordinator is required for
each class of weaponry installed (the designer of the vessel designates the
weapons classes in any reasonable manner, depending on the intended use of
the vessel; possible configurations include spinal/bay/turret,
laser/missile/pa-gun, anti-ship/anti-surface/anti-missile, and others).

If the vessel has any carried craft (fighters, riders, gunboats, or
whatever), 10 CP are required from a fighter controller for each one. 
Fighters operated in flights count as one "craft" for these purposes.  Each
controller can have no more than 10 control panels and one panel add-on;
however, one controller can control at least one fighter or flight, no
matter how few CP are ouptut by the position.  At least one fighter
controller is required if any carried craft are to be operated in combat. 
Also, at least one controller is required per launching facility or launch
tube installed.  Open frame hull configurations count as one launching
facility (no matter how many craft can be launched at once) for the
purposes of this rule.

Communications operators are optional in the CIC.  If the vessel is to
operate as the flagship (command ship) of a group of ships, at least one
communications operator must be present.  Each other ship in the group
requires 10 CP from a communications operator (do not count fighters or
other craft included in the total for fighter controllers above).  Each
operator can have no more than 10 control panels and one panel add-on;
however, one operator can handle at least one other vessel, no matter how
few CP are output by the position.

Without a CIC installed, ships are limited in two major ways; both
simulated in MegaTraveller by the tactics point pool.  First of all, if the
command vessel of a group of ships does not have a CIC, the total size of
the tactics point pool is halved, rounding up (to simulate the burden
placed on the commander by the lack of combat information support). 
Secondly, a ship which has no CIC halves its tactics points, rounding up,
to compute the tactical DM.  A few of examples should make things clear,
see below.

Convoy Example: A warship (CIC, Tac=3) is convoying several merchantmen (No
CIC, No Tactics).  The warship is in overall command, and the tactical
pool has 3 points in it.  Tactical point usage by the warship is normal,
but tactical points used by the merchants are halved; so that 1 tactical
point creates a DM of +1 (half of one, rounded up), but all 3 are required
to create a DM of +2.

Convoy Example: A group of armed merchant vessels (No CIC, Tac=2,1,1,1,0)
operate as a convoy.  The captain with the best tactical skill is placed in
overall command.  The tactical pool would be 5, but is halved to 3 due to
the lack of a CIC in the command ship.  Tactical points used by any ship
are halved, so that 1 point creates a DM of +1, and 3 are required for +2.

Pirate Example: A pirate squadron consists of two armed merchant ships (No
CIC, Tac=1,0), a scoutship (No CIC, Tac=1), and two captured patrol vessels
(CIC, Tac=3,2).  The player characters (Tac=3 in one of the patrol ships)
are in overall command.  The tactical pool is 7.  Tactical points used by
the merchants or the scout would be haved as in the above examples.

If a CIC was installed but does not meet the minimum requirements for the
current situation (due to battle damage, or a change in mission), subtract
1 from the tactics points instead of halving, but do not reduce the total
below 1.

Example: A large group of merchant vessels (No CIC, Tac=0) is being escorted
by an obsolesent destroyer (CIC, Tac=2).  However, the destroyer was
designed for fleet operations, and does not have the CIC facilities to act
as a flagship for a large squadron.  The warship is in overall command, and
the tactical pool has 2 points in it.  Tactical point usage by the warship
is normal, but tactical points used by the merchants are reduced by 1, so
that 1 or 2 tactical points creates a DM of +1.


Computer Viruses and Other Sillyness
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Just to get some background information on the proposed computer virus for
NeoTraveller, I asked some computer scientists and some published science
fiction authors.  The answers were consistent enough to be worth
mentioning.  With no exceptions, the computer scientists thought that the
whole idea was silly; no doubt about it.  One did mention that if all of
the computers were standardized (as might be the case for a government or
military) then such a virus might be a possability.  Almost all speculated
that a society that dependent on computers would have some kinds of
safeguards in place to prevent just such an occurrence.  Of the science
fiction writers, both thought that the idea sounded a little far-fetched,
but admitted that they might use it in a story anyway.

On the other hand, I finally found out where GDW swiped the idea from; does
the following description sound more than a little bit familliar?

	The Plague - Central to the action of all three scenarios
	is the electronic plague that struck the world on February
	14, 2035.  The original nanovirus was introduced into a
	Mexican power supply factory on February 1st.  Power supplies
	carrying the virus in time release capsules were shipped to
	other factories where they were built into millions of
	devices that were then shipped all over the world.  On the
	appointed day, the capsules broke open and the virus was
	released, spreading into the equipment it was built into,
	and then on into the Net.

	The virus went after anything with a high copper content
	(wires, microchips, batteries, magnets, etc.  feeding at the
	molecular level.  In the beginning, a device that went bad
	could be repaired, but by nightfall on the 14th the virus had
	spread into the repair equipment as well.  In a few more days
	random spread had affected some types of industrial equipment,
	but other than that, few mechanical items were directly
	involved.

To me, it sounds almost identical to the computer eating virus that we have
been told to expect in the background of TNE (Traveller - The New Era).
The above was taken from page 2 of "Supertanker of Death", which is copyright
1990 and 1991 by Eric Baker, and was published by BTRC in September 1991 as an
adevnture suppliment for their "Timelords" SF/TimeTravel RPG.  The above
quote is verbatum, and probably falls in the jurisdiction of fair use.  While
the computer eating virus idea still sounds more than a little silly to me, I
can somehow accept it better knowing that it came from the same people who
published "Macho Women with Guns" ;-)

'NUFF SAID!
~~~~~~~~~~~

WILDSTAR
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                      Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                              in the Far Future



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4258
Date:    Fri, 29 May 1992 9:29:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: LTG3878@zeus.tamu.edu
Subject: Jump Shuttles & Tenders

In response to my letter on Jump Drives in MT, PPUGLIESE@Pima.CCPima.edu
asks about the planetoid vessel in Supplement 9, Fighting Ships.  It is
stated there that the vessel was carried aboard a Battle Tender to 
transport this monitor from one system to another.  The question:  how
did it do this?  I do not recall if the specific class of Tender is
mentioned in the article.  If it was a World Class tender (or similar
vessel) that does not fully enclose the carried vessels, I would suggest
a Lanthanum Net, similar to the one for the Jump Tug in the same supplement.
The idea for a Lanthanum implanted net is not my own (apologies to the
person who thought of this, I've forgotten your name).  On the other hand,
some tenders fully enclose their carried vessels, so no problem.

As regards how to install a Lanthanum grid in a planetoid vessel in general,
I would propose keeping the same rules I stated in the previous article.
Any alternative would gamble differing from the stats stated in the
Referee's Manual.  As regards how physically to do this, perhaps they use
planetoids with Lanthanum in them to begin with.  I mean, how do they put
Lanthanum in Starship hulls anyhow?  In principle, one could bombard the
hull (be it planetoid or not) with a beam of ionized Lanthanum particles,
and perhaps displace the resident particles with Lanthanum.

racnke.ediku.edu wrote suggesting a Jump shuttle incorporating a Lanthanum
net (as mentioned above) instead of incorporating Lanthanum directly into
the hull of the SDB.  I also have pondered this idea.  It has the advantage
of leaving the price of the SDB unaltered.  Also, Supplement 7, Traders &
Gunboats states that docking the SDB and Jump Shuttle is a tedious process,
requiring several hours.  Surely one could deploy a Jump net in that time.
This may in fact be the Seeker Gaming Systems explain it, as they have
published the set of deckplans (in, gack, 25mm scale!) and the MT stats
both for the SDB and the Jump Shuttle (the shuttle isn't in the Imperial
Encylopedia).  The price of the SDB is the same as in the Imperial
Encyclopedia, and the Jump Shuttle can now do Jump-5 (whoop!) when not
mated to the SDB.  Myself, I think more along the lines of the use of
my system for the design of Battle Riders and Battle Tenders.  There is
now way I'm going to allow several hours for my Riders to mate with my
Tenders (and in my fleet, Riders are king).  I propose the following rule.

To successfully deploy a Jump Net:
Routine, Pilot, Engineering, 15 minutes
Referee:  if exceptional failure, the Net has suffered sufficient damage to
decrease performance.  Jump -1.

and the following rule for those not using Jump Nets:

To successfully mate a Battle Rider with a Tender:
Routine, Pilot, Intelligence, 2 minutes
Referee:  if destroyed Mishap, Rider and Tender have collided.  Each vessel
suffers one critical hit.  Increase task difficulty one level and reroll to
disentagle the two vessels.

Call me biased, but this makes a Lanthanum grid more useful for battle
purposes than a Net.  I view a Net as a way of transporting things when
you are not in a combat situation.

- --He who trembles when he thinks of TNE:  Lewis Taylor Goss

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4259
Date: Fri, 29 May 92 12:38:04 PDT
From: gwh@lurnix.COM (George W Herbert)
Subject: Why Navies Got Smaller?


Hans Rancke brought up the oft-raised point that Hard Times starship
construction levels seem to have plummeted more significantly
than justified.  After thinking about it a bit more, I have come
to think that perhaps we're not looking at the problem the right
way...

	It's been ~10 years since the war started.  During that time,
there's been a continuous "War Footing" taxation and construction
spree, which has significantly depressed the economy in general.
The US was pretty severely taxed by fighting two fronts to victory
at the same time in WW II over four years; an equivalent effort that
took ten years would have started to very, very seriously sunk the
economy.
	A depressed-in-general economy then will reduce significantly
the funds that can reasonably be spent on Navies; it's unreasonable
to tax the people to below the poverty line, so larger portions of the
populace can't be taxed at all.  The richer one's aren't as rich as
they were, either.  End result: factor of four to ten decline in
tax revenues.
	Add to that the destruction of starports and other industries
and of trade; we've often heard that the glue holding the Imperium 
together was trade.  That goes away, you can't import cheap things
from other worlds anymore, and suddenly we're depressing the
economy again.  Coupled with having to rebuild critical industries
and infrastructure (few traders will stop by if you don't at least
have a flat stretch of concrete with a control tower and water supply...)
and whammo, another factor of four to ten reduction, added to the first
one (what was going into shipbuilding is now being spent dealing
with rebuilding things and paying more money for building things
onplanet instead of importing them).
	
	We now have a sum-total reduction of funds available of
rough order of 90+%, maybe a bit better, likely a lot worse.
The 5 billion person tech D starport B world would only be able
to support 1 trillion credit squadron now, with an annual budget
of about 100,000MCr.  Now, imagine that all the starships that were
being built went off to war for (Lucan, Dulinor, Margaret, Craig, ...)
and didn't come back (either still there or blown to bits).  Now,
you don't have to support them anymore (they've abandoned you, no?)
but you have a B starport and no or few ships... you can build
nonstarships to your hearts content, and probably will, but
it's going to take a couple of years to get any medium sized
ones online, and in the meantime you're stuck with what you've
scrounged up.  Add to that the difficulty of building anything
with the occational random planetary/starport bombardments,
and you're starting to look like a GDW Hard Times world.

	The only thing I find hard to believe about this is that
none of the hi-pop worlds could see it coming ahead of time
(which, with 10 years warning should have been patently
obvious to anyone with half a brain and a slight case of 
overcautiousness/paranoia.)  If I were, say, the chief administrator
of such a world, about halfway through the civil war I would
have started covertly building up my planetary defense forces
and kept it kill-people-to-protect-it secret.  Lots of SDB's
of varying sizes, at least, and likely some bigger warships (though
Spinal Mounts are hard to hide... maybe get some allocated to
fixed planetary defenses and actually install them on a starship).
By the time the war ground to an effective halt as the starships 
all died off, I'd be sitting on top of a planet with enough 
defenses to hold off any comers, military or raider, and I'd
try real hard to keep that edge up on everyone else.
With a little luck, I could protect my nearby neighbors in a 
little safe zone, especially the ones that send food and
raw minerals to my industries.  See if you can talk the 
MegaCorps into maintaining some transport and industrial
presence (not hard if you seem to be stable, it would seem)
and there's an island of stability that will last through
a long night.
	In fact, it's not just amazing that one world didn't
do that.  It's amazing to me that _most_ of the hi-pop worlds
didn't do that, or just outright rebel against all factions
on the grounds of self-preservation.  There should have
been a mass uprising in the name of Peace about seven years
or so into the Civil War, before the corner of
more or less no return was passed.  The Imperial Populace
is being portrayed as mindless sheep for the most part,
and I have a problem with that (with several trillion people,
_someone_ is going to realize this and spread the word 
successfully...).

- -george william herbert
gwh@lurnix.com


------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun May 31 21:00:31 PDT 1992
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #352: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
4260  29-May-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU WARNING: Incoming tirade (silly vehicles and 
4261  29-May-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Like EXCELLENT! Dude! << Hey Dudes, The sun's
4262  30-May-92 Hans Rancke-Madse Fighting ships and navy budgets. << George W 
4263  30-May-92 metlay@phyast.pit ...in case anyone's wondering.... << There ma
4264  31-May-92 Jo Grant          Stories on the TML -- The Imperial Advisor <<

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4260
Date: Fri, 29 May 1992 19:28 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: WARNING: Incoming tirade (silly vehicles and Imperial Lines)

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Send the kiddies out of the room please, I feel a tirade comeing
on...

Are they out?  Good.

Dear friends,
While we have been merrily playing with our silly vehicle
contest, we have been totally outclassed.  Completely, and
absolutely.  By Whom, do you ask?
     By the same makers as Shattered Ships of the Fighting
Imperium!  THAT'S WHO! ARRRGH!!!  I CAN'T believe *THIS* one!
They're INSANE!  God DAMN IT!  Dow was being FUNNY when he put in
a spacecraft powered by an internal combustion engine!  THESE
Jokers put out an *OFFICIAL* one!

Assignment: Vigilante
The Laruusaliin Roughneck-Class Frontier Fuel Harvester
A TL 6 interplanetary fuel scoop ship.

Basically, the ship flies into a gas giant, scoops fuel, and
returns to orbit full of propane.
She has a displacement of 200tons and weighs 2300 tons (unloaded)
Now, when in the atmosphere of the gas giant here's how it
operates:  Uses fuel scoops to pick up hydrogen in order to fill
a large parawing/gas balloon.  It then travels around in the
atmosphere going through regions of the gas giant picking up
propane and other hydrocarbons from the atmosphere.

Ok, Now, the gas envelope is NOT RIGID.  It is a few times the
size of the Hindenburg and it is NOT RIGID.  Any guesses how long
such a blimp will last in the turbulent atmosphere of a GAS
GIANT?  You know, the same gas giant's that tear your Armor=40
ship to shreds sometimes?  Damn!  The TL 6 airships *I* know of
got torn to pieces in the atmosphere of EARTH!  Nevermind
something like JUPITER or SATURN!  God Bless it!  How do they
think this thing is gonna hold together!???

Right, now that you get the picture of how last these things are
gonna last, think about this one:  These ships cost 103 Million
Credits a piece.  Per trip they get 650 kiloliters of propane.
How many trips will it take for this thing to pay for itself?
637 trips (assuming 250Cr per kiloliter of propane)  Nearly 2
years of daily operations.  Any bets on if it is gonna survive
that long?

Ok, all these arguments are pretty damning, but as I said before,
it is powered by an *INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINE*  WHERE does it
get the AIR to BREATHE?  In vaccum?  Well, you could say it is
using it's high performance rockets to keep it powered up at that
point.  (They last 20 minutes) In the gas giant?  Well, how much
oxygen do you get there?  Not a whole lot!  WHAT THE HELL DID
THEY THINK THEY WERE DOING?!?!  There are no batteries listed, it
has to have some power plant churning away at all times.  So
WHERE is the AIR coming from?  Dow's design had the sence to
include Liquid Oxygen for his silly design.  Nobody though of
that here!

Calm, calm, Calm.  Right.  Now what is the point of this ship?
Well it is supposed to give a low tech planet space capability so
that it can get the resources from a gas giant.
HOWEVER!  In order to get the fuel back to the planet that needs
it, they need to have an X boat tender standing by.  Remember the
old TL 15 x-boat tender?  Well, Gee... If you've got one of THOSE
lying around, what the hell do you need a bunch of unreliable,
very expensive, and difficult to build TL 6 ships for?

Did common sence go on a holiday?  JESUS CHRIST!  What's next? 
TL 3 steam powered starships?

On TOP of that stupidity, GDW totally FAILED to put Rob Dean's
name in AGAIN!   DAMN IT!  It's not like it's hard to SPELL!
I don't like this.  I don't like this one little bit.  Rob did
almost all the GOOD designs in Assignment Vigilante.  But I
understand this is not Chuck Gannon's fault.  At least he showed
good taste in choosing Rob's designs.  I don't know if he is
responsible for the Roughneck, though.  I KNOW it can't be Rob's.

You can let the kids back in now...
     -------------
IMPERIAL LINES

Also included in the pack was a copy of Imperial Lines.  An 8
page newsletter.  Not bad over all.  Not a whole lot of
substance.  The largest article in there is on Foreven Sector.
(the one adjacent to the spinward Marches.)  For those of you who
don't know, this is The Iakr sector that the story I've been
putting out has been set in.  It is an interesting article in
that all they provide you with is a map.  No planetary data, no
notes on the governments there.  No list of UPPs.  Nothing.  They
apparantly decided that it is one sector which is going to be
left up to the individual Refs.  They did give you a few planets
stats that had been published previously, (but they forgot a few
others that had been established in Foreven)  (sigh)  So, the
article as a whole doesn't help a whole lot.  All you really get
is a sector map with some dots on it.
(There is a cryptic hint about strange goings on in the Zho
Consulate)

There is also an article on reducing starship fuel requirements. 
Not bad, I've been thinking of writing that one up myself. 
Essentually, they discuss powering down your fusion plant during
jump.  Other than that, we've heard it all before.

Also included are the stats and skills for various Harrison Ford
movie characters.

There is also a short adventure/amberzone/76 Patrons type thingy
that they harken back to Lee's Guide to Interstellar Adventure
Vol 1.  (I guess they were looking for something to make the old
collectors sit up and take notice)  This one is pretty silly, but
not hilariously so.

Over all Imperial Lines looks like it could be a good newsletter
assuming it keeps going.  HOWEVER:  take a look at the
subscription rate.  $8 per year.  Now, that's a little more than
HALF the cost of Challenge per year.  For that you get *4* 8 page
newsletters as opposed to 12 issues Challenge.  Good buy! No WAY!
Come ON!  The articles are DECENT, but $2 for 8 black and white
pages?  Are we really THAT desparate?

(sigh)  I am.  I guess, I'll be a sucker and shell out my money. 
Especially since someone said they might do something on the
Zhos.  But I doubt that this one will sell much.  I'll just keep
my fingers crossed and hope that the quality stays at a decent
level.  If it decends, I won't be buying.

Scott 2G Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4261
Date: Fri, 29 May 1992 19:30 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Like EXCELLENT!  Dude!

Hey Dudes, The sun's out!  Surf's Up!

CraftID:  Surfboard TL10, Cr 11,926
Hull:     (1/2) Disp=100liter, Config=4USL, Armor=4E,
          Loaded=29.2Kg
Power:    (1/1) PhotoCells=9kw
          (1/1) Battery=.08kwhr Dur=6 min
Loco:     (1/1) HVGrav=400kg Accel=4G's,
          NOE=40, Cruise=225, Top=300
          (Performance unaffected with loads under 320kg)
Off/Def:  Like, it's got a really rad paintjob dude...
Control:  Electronic*2
Other:    EMLevel=Mod, ObjSize=Small

Well, it may not be a TL 6 woody, but like it's totally excellent
dudes...  All we like need now are some tapes of the most
triumphant Ventures and like the Raybeats man...  And we can not
forget the most totally triumphant Trav-Surf song of all time:
TELSTAR by the excellent Tornadoes!

Hey Metlay-dude, like yer skim-bikes are totally bogus man...

Scott "Pipeline" Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4262
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Fighting ships and navy budgets.
Date: Sat, 30 May 92 20:16:08 MET DST

George W Herbert:

> Hans Rancke brought up the oft-raised point that Hard Times starship
> construction levels seem to have plummeted more significantly
> than justified.  After thinking about it a bit more, I have come
> to think that perhaps we're not looking at the problem the right
> way...
>
> [10 years of fighting will strain the economy fearfully.]

Very true. On the other hand, the 500 Cr per citizen figure represents
peacetime spending (something like 1-2 % of GNP, I think?) Wartime
spending in England in WW II approached 40% (I've been told; this may
be completely untrue). 'Striker' mentions 15% as the maximum. Still,
I agree that it would be reasonable to reduce Naval spending due to
depressed economy. But how much?

>       A depressed-in-general economy then will reduce significantly
> the funds that can reasonably be spent on Navies; it's unreasonable
> to tax the people to below the poverty line, so larger portions of the
> populace can't be taxed at all.  The richer one's aren't as rich as
> they were, either.  End result: factor of four to ten decline in
> tax revenues.

There's a lot of difference between survivable poverty and endurable
poverty. In peacetime people will demand a lot more than they will
make do with in wartime. And the 500 Cr per citizen figure is peace-
time spending, remember?

>       Add to that the destruction of starports and other industries
> and of trade; we've often heard that the glue holding the Imperium
> together was trade.  That goes away, you can't import cheap things
> from other worlds anymore, and suddenly we're depressing the
> economy again.  Coupled with having to rebuild critical industries
> and infrastructure (few traders will stop by if you don't at least
> have a flat stretch of concrete with a control tower and water supply...)

We're talking about a Class B Starport.

> and whammo, another factor of four to ten reduction, added to the first
> one (what was going into shipbuilding is now being spent dealing
> with rebuilding things and paying more money for building things
> onplanet instead of importing them).
>
>       We now have a sum-total reduction of funds available of
> rough order of 90+%, maybe a bit better, likely a lot worse.
> The 5 billion person tech D starport B world would only be able
> to support 1 trillion credit squadron now, with an annual budget
> of about 100,000MCr.

The squadron they do maintain is worth a little over 8 billion (Most of it
in non-starships). That's less than 1% of the trillion credit you mention.

>Now, imagine that all the starships that were
>being built went off to war for (Lucan, Dulinor, Margaret, Craig, ...)
>and didn't come back (either still there or blown to bits).  Now,
>you don't have to support them anymore (they've abandoned you, no?)
>but you have a B starport and no or few ships... you can build
>nonstarships to your hearts content, and probably will, but
>it's going to take a couple of years to get any medium sized
>ones online, and in the meantime you're stuck with what you've
>scrounged up.

The point is that to deal with the menaces of Indro the Lightless and the
other terrible reaver bands that apparently plague the worlds of Hard Times
a world would need perhaps 100 fighters. Now take your Starport B, TL D,
population 5 billion world and strip it of it's defenses down to the last
SDB. Furthermore assume that not the least little lost squadron of warships
will accept service with this world in return for maintenance and fat
salaries (incredible, but let's assume it). This world will have to
bootstrap itself.

The world still have its naval yards (That's what makes it Class B, after
all). Capacity is 5 million ton. Reduce that by 90% to account for bombardment
damage. Capacity 500.000 T. Now tax every citizen 5 Cr (that's 1% of peacetime
spending. You'll agree that they should be able to afford that?). That's 25
billion Credit. Now start building 100 fighters. Of course you have a standard
model ready, but let's just assume for the sake of argument that you don't.
I'll use Termagant Fighters (20 T, price MCr 31.33) for the example. Tonnage:
2000. Assign double yard capacity and pay 60% overtime, and you'll have your
100 fighters in 12 weeks at a cost of 5 billion credits, leaving you 20
billion credits for other projects. The next batch of fighters will cost 3,1
billion credits, or 2,5 billion if you're willing to wait an extra 10 days to
get them.

Now decide you want to help your neighbouring planets and your own trade.
You can build jump 100 T shuttles capable of moving your standard fighters
in 40 weeks (20 if you're busy). I don't have a design for one, but they
can't cost much more than a Free Trader (in fact, you can use Free Traders
to move them). Yes, let's make the jump shuttles 200 T, capable of carrying
4 fighters each. It'll take 8 (or 4) weeks longer to build them, but what
the hey... You can build 25 of them for less than a billion Cr. Let's see,
what's left? A shipyard capacity of 491.000 T and a budget of 16,5 billion
unspent. 400 more fighters and the Unity of Promise can protect each of
the 5 other planets in the Unity. That leaves 6,5 billion for ambitious stuff
like converting type M liners into fighting ships. You can afford to build
(not support, BUILD) 11 of these the first year. I think you have to put
in a new power plant, so this will take 18 weeks if you don't want to spend
money on speeding up work. Shipyard capacity is no problem (it could have
been reduced by 99% and still be plenty. Heck, you can build these fighters
in any car factory on the world, though tooling up may take a while. But
even monthly pirate raids will not keep these fighters unbuilt for long),
so you can make them all concurrently.

Now let's look at next year's budget: Fleet consists of 600 20 Fighters
(BCr 15,04*), 25 Jump Shuttles (BCr 0,8*) and 11 _Vigilantes_ (BCr 6,68).
(Actually you'd have a mix of different types, which is why I don't give
class discount for these.)

*: 20% class discount included. The first batch may have cost more, but
   they're just as easy to maintain.

Total value BCr 22.52. Maintenance: BCr 2,25, leaving you with BCr 22,75
to spend on other projects. Perhaps we can lay down a couple of 1000 T
Destroyers... And of course more fighters to protect more of your neigh-
bouring planets, expanding your protective umbrella further and further out.

In the meantime trade is beginning to revive. Next year's budget will
be bigger.

>Add to that the difficulty of building anything
>with the occational random planetary/starport bombardments,
>and you're starting to look like a GDW Hard Times world.

Who's performing these bombardments? Anyone strong enough to do so is
strong enough to protect his own merchants. To desrtoy this light in
the Long Night you have to introduce another.

> [Anyone with an ounce of brains could predict and avoid this. ]

I agree. And even if noone did, lots of these planets can bootstrap
their fleet and trade in less than a year.


Wildstar writes:
> Trade, Commerce, Taxation, and the Imperial Navy
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Recap for Those Who Came In Late
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Using the TCS starship construction rules in combination with (hopefully
> reasonable) assumptions about the types of ships constructed, I further
> calculated that there are 11,813,221 starships registered in the Imperium;
> with an aggregate volume of 73,832,634,000 tons displacement.  The original
> article, along with the supporting data tables to support my conclusions,
> should be available from one of the TML FTP sites.  Recently, I have been
> looking at some of these figures more closely.

The problem here is that the figures in TCS only concerns themselves with
building and maintaining naval ships. Merchant traffic is not touched at
all. We've no way to estimate civilian traffic (unless you count the ship
encounter tables ;-). Based purely on a fantasy game sourcebook I use a
figure of 2 tons of merchant shipping per ton of military shipping. This
could be miles off.

> This puts the grant total at 79,203,958,000,000 Cr per voyage.  I assume
> that the average commercial starship makes one voyage every two weeks,
> except for the 4-week maintainance period, for a total of 24 trips per year.
> This means that in the course of a year, the total Imperial interstellar
> trade contribution to the GIP is 1,900,894,900,000,000 Cr.  Therefore,
> interstellar trade contributes 0.8661% of the total GIP.  This slightly less
> than the tax burden imposed by the Imperium, and is in fact a such a small
> fraction of the GIP that the complete cessation of interstellar trade should
> cause no more hardship than a recession.

Ouch!

> Reason for the End of the Imperium #542: It is more economically feasable
> for member worlds to cease all interstellar trade than it is for them to
> continue to pay Imperial taxes.

> One of the more disturbing results above is that the Imperial tax burden is
> greater than the fraction of the GIP due to interstellar trade.

I think this is the place to present my fix for reducing the size of the
Navy of interstellar powers:

Argument: The more people a society consists of, the higher the proportion of
non-contributing members. By contributing members I mean anyone in a primary
or secondary occupation. I don't mean to imply that people in tertiary occu-
pations dosen't work, but they all live one way or another on whatever wealth
the primary and secondary occupations creates. The amount of money that a
planet can afford [1] to spend on naval forces is therefor modified by a
factor that depends on the size of the population:

    Factor = 1/(2 to the power of (8 - log (population))).

This factor is 1 for a population of 100 million, 1/2 for one of 1 billion
and 1/4 for one of 10 billion. It will be 2 for a population of 10 million
and go on doubling every time the population level goes down by one.
(Obviously there is a limit to this. I suggest that we ignore any world with
a population less than 100.000. Such will tend to be colonies and outposts
and thus go on the parent planet's budget anyway.)

[1] Actually "are willing to spend". This is what the government can get
    their taxpayers to pony up with without them growing resentful. And
    we're talking peacetime. In wartime all bets are off. A society will
    willingly spend much more than they can afford in such circumstances,
    witness how WWII more or less ruined Britain even though they won.

In a interstellar society all planets will want the other planets to pay
proportionally the same as themselves, so the budget must be tuned to the
ones who can pay the least per citizen. We ignore the possibility that the
interstellar government will force the minorities to pay disproportionally
much. Certainly the Imperium could do so, but that will just add extra
complications to the calculations. The high-population worlds contribute
most to the Naval budget, and it's them we reduce most in capacity to
contribute. So (using TCS figures) Planet Big, with population 1 billion,
can't pay more than 250 Cr/citizen. 30% of this goes to the federation,
so Planet Big pays 75 Cr/citizen to the federation fleet. They retain
175 Cr/citizen for their own planetary defenses. Planet Medium, with
population 100 million, can afford to use 500 Cr/citizen, but they still
only pay 75 Cr/citizen to the federation. (Incidentally, they don't _need_
to use all the 425 Cr left over on planetary defenses. If they're near an
unfriendly border they propably will, if they feel secure they may give
their citizens a tax break (or waste it on other things)).

Note that if you multiply the population by 10 you multiply the naval
budget by 5, so a high-pop world will still be considerably stronger
than a low-pop world.

I don't know the population of the most populous planet in the Imperium,
but assuming it's 50 billion, the Imperial tax will come to 30% of Cr 77
= 23 Cr. Let's use a little Imperial muscle and demand 25 Crimp (Imperial
credit) per citizen (this means that a low tech planet will get screwed out
of quite a lot more than 30% of their military budget, but who listens to
the complaints of low tech planets anyway?)

> Starship Construction
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> One of the main obstacles to larger merchant ships is the economics of ship
> building.  As detailed in Trillion Credit Squadron, a ship under
> construction uses shipyard space equal to its displacement for the entire
> time it is being constructed.  This rule does not seem to have been changed
> in MegaTraveller.

It has been changed. It has been made a lot more vague. Look at page 61 of
_Referee's Manual_. Ships under 60.000 kiloliters (4444,44 T) takes 36
months. Ships of more than that takes 'from 24 to 60 months based on
conditions, volume of orders, and the degree of haste desired by the
ordering government'. Class ships takes 80% of the time.

Incidentally, I just noticed a sentence on the same page: 'A shipyard
navy may construct ships on its planet using local resources, even if
a shipyard is not present'.




      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "A  subsector  official  pompously states that the
        subsector  armed  forces  have  four Kinunir class
        ships in service,  each with enough troop strength
        to put down any military operations that threathen
        the peace of the Imperium."

                        ---Adventure 1, The Kinunir

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4263
From: metlay@phyast.pitt.edu (metlay)
Subject: ...in case anyone's wondering....
Date: Sat, 30 May 92 21:42:45 EDT


There may be some unannounced, sudden and extended silences from me
in the next few weeks. I'll be queueing mail on all topics for later
retrieval, and I WILL get back to y'all. I've set July 2nd as my
PhD thesis defense date.

AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!

As ever,

- -- 

Mike Metlay
metlay@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu
Atomic City, P.O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4264
From: Jo Grant <jaymin@maths.tcd.ie>
Subject: Stories on the TML -- The Imperial Advisor
Date: Sun, 31 May 92 11:30:09 BST

        OK. Results are in. Not one person said "No" although many were
rightly concerned about message length and quality. However the number
of responses I got was only a fraction of the actual readers of the TML
so I won't take it as overwhelming.
	I will post one story first, The Imperial Advisor, in six parts
of between 4 and 6K. I will try to time them to meet the bi-weekly digests.
We'll then see how people feel. It is not a campaign writeup. It is quite
different from what little I have read of Scott Kellogg's stuff. It is not
the best I have but was the most convienent to hand.

			Jo Grant


_______________________________________________________________________________
Jo Jaquinta			| Warbot: "I am the very model of a modern
jaymin@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie	|		major war machine!"
Dublin, IRELAND			| Jakobot: "So what?"	[Extreme Paranoia]

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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Subject: TML Bundle #353: Msgs 4265-4266
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun May 31 21:00:38 PDT 1992
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #353: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
4265  31-May-92 cat@fgssu1.fgs.sl Funnly little people in fuzzy suits << Well, 
4266  31-May-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU The 4.5th Frontier War (Chapter 2, Part 4) <<

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4265
Date: Sun, 31 May 92 12:57:52 PDT
From: cat@fgssu1.fgs.slb.COM (Rather B. Fishing)
Subject: Funnly little people in fuzzy suits


Well, my traveller group has been threatening to post character
background and generation rules on Raccoonids.  We'd love to get
some feedback on this.  We've tried very hard to make raccoonids
real aliens with an alien mindset, and not funnly little people in
fuzzy suits.  We've been running two raccoonid character in play for
over five years, so we think we've got something going that's a
viable minor race.  

Enjoy!

Catie Helm, Jim Kellerer and Kinene Barzin
cat@piggy.fgs.slb.com _or_ cat@fgssu1.sinet.slb.com

- --- Included Text ---

RACCOONIDS
_or_ The Importance of Fish in Government

In 612, imperial scouts mapping in the newly established Domain of
Deneb discovered the Raccoonid Race on Dentus (2201 C979500-A) in the
Regina Subsector.  The scout service named the new minor alien race
after a species of mammal common throughout solomani space.

Raccoonid Physiology

Raccoonids range between 0.8 and 1.6 meters in height, though a
raccoonid over 1.3 meters is rare.  They weight between 30 and 50
kilos.  They are capable of bipedal or quadrupedal motion, depending
on what's convenient under the circumstances.  They are plantigrade
like humans, not digitigrade like Vargr or Aslani. Both feet and hands
have non-retractable claws, enabling them to climb almost anything
including porous masonry. In appearance, they look like overgrown
solomani "raccoons."  Their fur consists of an outer coat of guard
hair, a middle coat of water-shedding hair and a fine undercoat which
they shed seasonally.

Compared to humans, their eyesight is shifted into the infrared and is
deficient in the violets and blues.  Their hearing is very sensitive,
even exceeding that of the Vargr.  Raccoonids are omnivorous, though
they favor a protein-rich diet.  On their native planet of Dentus,
they eat primarily a diet of fish, shellfish, various domestic fowl,
roots and tubers.

Gravity on the surface of Dentus is 1.55 G's; as a result, raccoonids
have large bones and are surprisingly strong for their size.  Compared
to the human races, however, raccoonids are not as strong.  Dentus is
also a very tectonically active planet, with over 20 tectonic plates,
and an abundance of volcanoes.  The atmosphere of Dentus is tainted
with sulfureous and carbonaceous gases from volcanic activity.
Raccoonids have evolved respiratory aoli which are capable of
filtering these contaminants from air prior to oxygen/CO2 exchange of
the blood.  Raccoonids have an average lifespan of 60 imperial years.

The revolution of Dentus takes 27.4 hours.  Dentus is a cool planet,
since the amount of particulates in the atmosphere filter much of the
solar radiation prior to its absorbtion by the planet's surface.  30%
of the planet's surface is glaciated.  Raccoonids live on the northern
half of one of the two large land masses, in a narrow strip of
temperate zone south of the northern ice sheet.  There are slightly
less than 1,000,000 raccoonids living on Dentus.  The few who leave
the planet have usually been recruited into the imperial scouts.

Raccoonid Psionics

All raccoonids are clairvoyant to some degree.  Their clairvoyance is
a trait that probably evolved in response to detecting predators.
Some very few raccoonids are also pre-cognizant.  Imperial researchers
have failed to identify the psionic abilities of raccoonids, due to
ignorance of xenopsionics, and also to the general imperial bias
against psionics.

Imperial researchers have mis-attributed raccoonid clairvoyance/pre-
cognizance to the greater sensitivity of raccoonid hearing, touch, and
sense of smell.

Raccoonid Origins And Anthropology

Imperial researchers are divided on the possible origins of the 
raccoonid race.  Due to their truly remarkable resemblance to the 
raccoons found in solomani space, many genetic anthropologists have 
argued that raccoonids are an engineered race, like the Vargr.  Other 
researchers have argued that racoon-like creatures have evolved 
independently in many different places in the galaxy, and that the 
raccoonids are merely the most evolved of a common mammal-type.   A 
large, probably ursoid, predator is a common theme in raccoonid 
folklore, which the evolutionists argue was a catalyst for raccoonids 
to evolve into a truly sentient race.

It is extremely unfortunate for researchers involved in raccoonid
studies that there is no raccoonid archeological record.  Raccoonids
scavenge and recycle everything, thus leaving no recognizable
archeological artifacts.  In addition, prior to discovery by the
imperium, raccoonids had no written nor oral history.  The raccoonids,
however, did (and still do) have a large onus of oral tradition and
folklore, dictating their form of very loose government and social
behavior.  The argument over the origins of the raccoonids will
probably never be solved, since there is no evidence which clearly
supports either academic position.  Raccoonids themselves find the
whole controversy rather trivial, very amusing and "so terribly
human."

Raccoonid Society And Culture

Compared to humans or aslani, raccoonids have a poorly developed sense
of property.  Land is not something that can be owned.  Other objects,
like houses, tools, and art are "owned" by whoever is using them at
the moment.  If an object is left alone for even a small amount to
time, it may be appropriated by some other raccoonid.  Many of the
debates of raccoonid "fishflings" revolve around the ownership of some
tool which the "prior" owner put down for only a minute so he could
fetch his lunch...

When the imperial scouts first logged the initial survey results on
the raccoonid race, they reported that there was no legal system or
government among the raccoonids.  They were wrong.  Due to the scouts'
incomplete understanding of raccoonid language (which sounds like
percussive purrs, clicks, and chitters to other races), the scouts
missed that the raccoonids conduct a loose form of representative
government.  Raccoonids have no word for government, but they do have
a word for their local community meeting, though it has eluded
translation.  For convenience, imperial researchers have nicknamed the
local community meeting as "the fishfling."

Every raccoonid community, never larger than a few hundred raccoonids,
has it's local "fishfling."  The fishfling is a meeting in which every
adult raccoonid has a vote and the right to speak.  The fishfling is
conducted by semi-professional "jurists," who set up the meeting
place, recognize speakers, keep order, tally votes, and sweep up the
considerable mess afterwards.  The business of the fishfling is
anything considered appropriate according to tradition, and many human
researchers have voiced the opinion that raccoonid tradition is
remarkable fluid (though raccoonids will vocally refute that
position).  The best that can be said about fishflings is that they
are boisterous.  Raccoonids will bring a pail of small fish to snack
on during a fishfling, saving the fish carcasses to throw at speakers
they disagree with.  Observers have noticed that favorable motions in
the fishfling produce very few flung fish, and that unpopular motions
bring a veritable downpour of fish.

Pre-imperial raccoonid culture was TL1. Prior to discovery by the
imperium, the raccoonids pursued a simple life of mostly eating and
sleeping.  Most industry was geared toward food preservation, small
tool manufacture and trade.  For hobbies, raccoonids pursued various
crafts such as beadwork or wood carving.  Most entertainment took the
form of oral recitation, either of traditions or of fables.
raccoonids are very social beings and early raccoonid society was
cooperative and highly integrated.  Due to the adverse climatic
conditions, food production was a community effort in order to
maximize preserved foodstuffs for the disproportionately long winter.
(Needless to say, the necessity of community cooperation in order to
survive is one of the arguments of the evolved-sentients school of
thought among imperial researchers.)

Due to the small geographic area which raccoonids occupied, the less
than 1 million raccoonids spoke the same language (accounting for
regional dialects) and shared the same culture and oral tradition.
Local customs existed, but visitors to an area were expected to adapt
for the sake of fitting in and maintaining peace.  Aberrant or violent
raccoonids were ostracized from society, an extreme and rare
circumstance.  An ostracized raccoonid either attempted to survive
alone or moved to a new community far away to start afresh.  Very few
raccoonids have ever survived alone - the prospects for an ostracized
raccoonid were usually grim.

The Impact Of The Imperium On Raccoonid Culture

The initial reports on the planet Dentus recommended isolating it, so
as to preserve such a peaceful, idyllic, and pastoral culture.  The
scout service and subsequent imperial anthropologists discovered that
such preservation was not possible.  The raccoonids, they discovered,
were not only intelligent, but extremely curious.  A few scanners
disappeared, which caused some concern.  However, when the local
raccoonids appeared several days later, wanting to know what they did
wrong in putting it back together, concern turned into large-scale
consternation.

Despite attempts to prevent further incidents, more equipment
disappeared, and more raccoonids arrived asking pointed questions.
The situation deteriorated.  Raccoonids, lacking a basic understanding
of personal property, took whatever they wanted.  Also, it evolved
that even sophisticated security precautions were insufficient to
prevent a determined raccoonid from appropriating what he or she
wanted.  To add insult to injury, the same raccoonid would appear
usually within the week, with the appropriated article, full of
curiosity and more questions.

In 627, an imperial research vessel was disabled and almost halfway
dismantled by the locals before rescue arrived.  After this incident,
imperial authorities made an unprecedented decision; they decided that
regardless of the primitive technology of the raccoonids, raccoonids
could receive whatever technological training they desired, on the
condition that no technological devices would be introduced into
raccoonid culture by imperial citizens.  This was presented to the
raccoonids in several different locations, and through the trade
routes the imperial decision spread to all raccoonid communities.  As
a result, the amount of oral tradition governing raccoonid society
increased an estimated 50%, and by year 700, there were approximately
10,000 raccoonids in the scout service or attending imperial schools
and universities.

A trend established itself: the most adventuresome raccoonids either
joined the imperial scouts or sought schooling off-planet.  After a
period of time, these raccoonids would return to Dentus, full of ideas
and with money in the bank.  Many fish were flung as returning
raccoonids attempted to introduce new concepts into raccoonid society,
but by the year 1000, the raccoonids owned two domestic fusion power
plants, a blossoming tourist trade, and a small spaceport.
Surprisingly, the peaceful and social nature of raccoonid society has
not changed.  The structure of fishflings has evolved, however; all
fishflings are still small, but each fishfling can elect to send one
of its jurists to the regional fishfling.  The one hundred and three
regional fishflings each send a member jurist to what the raccoonids
call "the Far Fishfling," mostly due to the distance that members must
travel to attend.  The Far Fishfling makes decisions on items of
planetwide importance, like the bank account (all raccoonids share the
same bank account), inter-planetary trade, and who gets stuck with
being ambassador to the Imperium.

Raccoonids Interactions In Imperial Culture

Most imperial citizens will never have met a raccoonid.  Raccoonids
are rare, and only turn up in significant numbers in the scouts.  A
raccoonid or two may be seen on the city streets of university towns
on Regina or Mora, or downstation from scout bases.  Most imperial
humans will encounter raccoonids in the Domain of Deneb.  Due the
fracturing of the imperium, most raccoonids not within the Domain are
probably desperate to get home.

When not at work, raccoonids will either spend a lot of time looking
for good seafood restaurants, or visiting parks.  Raccoonids out
looking for seafood will either go as a group of raccoonids, or
lacking other raccoonid company, will enlist as many non-raccoonid
friends as possible.  Eating, after all, is a social event to a
raccoonid.  A solo raccoonid will be very insistent, often past the
point of human tact and patience, in finding company for a meal.

Raccoonids frequent parks, woods and forests whenever possible.
Climbing up and down trees, and playing skill games of toss are common
activities.  Raccoonids are easily annoyed by small human children who
tend to think of them as something they would like to have for pets.
Raccoonids have been seen on Regina lecturing mothers about the
manners of their children on more than one occasion.

Raccoonids are communal creatures, and have only a fuzzy concept of
personal property.  A raccoonid on a ship with a crew of various other
sentients will "borrow" an item or two occasionally, and then return
it when finished.  Raccoonids who have been in the scouts have
developed the good sense not to use the property of others, but they
will tell the casual inquirer that these proprietary instincts in
other races are absurd at best, and anti-social at worst.  Raccoonids
who have had less exposure to other cultures will have problems.  At
universities and institutions, newly arrived raccoonids are required
to live communally with more experienced raccoonids until they have
acclimated to imperial concepts of property.

Raccoonids find it difficult to communicate by speech alone; their
body language is very expressive and an integral part of their
communication.  Most of the body language (tail puffs, fur ruffling,
and ear motions) will be familiar to anyone with experience with other
races like the Vargr or Aslani.  Anyone without previous vargr,
aslani, or raccoonid experience, however, will miss a lot.

Raccoonids are very curious, more curious than even humans.
Raccoonids can get into a lot of trouble just by wondering what was on
the other side of a door or hatch, because the urge to investigate is
very strong.  The raccoonid tendency to investigate, however, is
tempered by innate raccoonid clairvoyance.  In the scouts, a raccoonid
who doesn't want to investigate something is usually always listened
to.

Raccoonid Character Generation

When rolling up a raccoonid character, make the following
modifications:

_Initial Character Generation_

Strength: divide 2D6 by 2, and round UP.

Dexterity: multiply 2D6 by 2, and round DOWN.

Education: 2D6.  In addition to whatever formal education a raccoonid
may pursue off of Dentus, education reflects how much of the lexicon
of oral tradition a raccoonid can recite, understand and interpret.

Social Standing: 2D6.  Social standing reflects the influence any
individual raccoonid has in his or her local community, particularly
in the local Fishfling.  Some raccoonids have been knighted for their
service in the scouts, but imperial knighting has no impact on
raccoonid social standing on Dentus.  (Rules on knighting a raccoonid
are including in the rules modifications for mustering out, below.)

Psionics: raccoonid characters must roll for psionic strength.
Raccoonids are only eligible for clairvoyance and pre-cognizance.  Use
the rules in the MT players manual for determining the strength of
these psionic skills.

_Basic Raccoonid Skills_

All raccoonids will have the following basic skills by default:

Wilderness Survival - 1
Reconnaissance - 1
Scrounger - 1
Intrusion - 1

_Skills Not Available to Raccoonids_

Energy Weapons, Equestrian, FA Gunnery, Fusion Gun, Gambling, 
Guard/Hunting Beast, Heavy Weapons, Leader, Legal, Mass Driver, Meson 
Guns, Recruiting

If you use the character generation tables from the Player's Manual 
then the list of prohibited/modified skills can be summarized as 
follows:

Vice: no gambling (add scrounging instead)
Guncmbt: no energy weapons
Inborn: no leader
Special Cmbt: no FA gunnery, heavy weapons, high energy weapons
Interp: no interview, no steward
No Recruiting 
Economic - no legal (add scrounging instead)
Environ - no animal handling (pack animals only), add scrounging.
Also, given a choice, no sane raccoonid will take admin as a skill.

_Raccoonid Careers_  

The following is a list of appropriate raccoonid careers.

Jurist: A raccoonid jurist can be anything from the semi-professional
administrator/clerk of the local Fishfling to an ambassador.  Off-
planet duty as a diplomat is considered a hardship.  Ambassadors,
negotiators and counsels are appointed from the membership of the Far
Fishfling by a consensus of the Far Fishfling.  Use the diplomat
character generation tables to generate Jurist raccoonids.  Note:
Jurist raccoonids are not likely to leave Dentus unless they have
sufficiently high social standing to sit in the Far Fishfling.

Scrounger: Use the Raider/Rogue generation tables.  
Scout: use the scout tables in the Player's Manual 
Scientist/Researcher 
Doctor 
Belter
Hunters: These characters will never leave Dentus unless by special
contract to some wealthy trophy hunter.
Merchants: These characters are not likely to go beyond Dentus's
spaceport.  raccoonids are not travelling merchants, and Dentus has no
fleet of merchant ships.
Artisans: Professional raccoonid artisans do not leave Dentus.
Mechanics: Usually found as repairmen at the Dentus Spaceport.  

_Character Details_

Terms of Service: 4 years per term.
Survival: similar to human.
Commissions, promotions, and successes: similar to human.
Special Duty: see Player's Manual.
Skills and Training: Add scrounging skill.
Reenlistment: similar to human.
Retirement: 4 terms maximum.

Mustering out and Retirement: all benefits immediately (in terms of
money or Traveller's Aid Memberships) or eventually (in terms of
possessions) accrue to the Planet of Dentus planetary account.
Imperial Knighthood is now a mustering out benefit from scouts only
(available on a roll of 7).  Knighthood is the only mustering out
benefit which accrues to the individual raccoonid instead of to
Raccoonids as a whole.  Knighthood does not add to a raccoonid's
social standing on Dentus.

_Other Details_

Names: Real Raccoonid names can't be translated into Galanglic.
raccoonids will take on a name that suits them for use with imperial
citizens.  The player is therefore free to give raccoonid characters
whatever names seem fitting.

Character Titles: "Elder, youngster, cousin, friend."  Raccoonid 
society has no social hierarchy.

Aging and anagathics: raccoonids don't use anagathics.  The use of 
anagathics is anti-social behavior and punishable by ostracism.

Raccoonid Archetypes: the clever raccoonid, the raccoonid who works 
for the communal good, the raccoonid who takes in the less fortunate.

Raccoonid Clothing: Raccoonids dislike clothes, and will habitually
wear nothing.  For formal occassions involving other races, they well
wear handmade vests, elaborately embroidered and beaded in bright
colors.

Raccoonid Proverbs (of which there are thousands!):

"Many good ideas have flung many fish."
This proverb underscores the raccoonid process of argument towards a
community consensus.  The concept of an individual taking action as an
agitator or leader in a community is unknown to raccoonids.

"A tale without an audience is lonely."
This proverb shows the very social nature of raccoonid culture.  
Raccoonids hate to be alone, and will search out company at every 
opportunity.  This is also used between raccoonids as a veiled insult, 
when one raccoonid accuses another of hoarding some desired object or 
foodstuffs, instead of sharing it when it was needed.

Miscellaneous: 
Raccoonids are not innately aggressive, but will also have no problems
defending themselves.  Raccoonids are great "team- players."
Raccoonids are not martial - you will not find a raccoonid in the
army, navy or any other armed force.  Raccoonids speaking galanglic
are occasionally difficult to understand, and the "l" sound is almost
impossible for them to articulate.  Raccoonids are naturals at
breaking and entering, and they can dismantle almost anything.  (Many
unfortunate raccoonids died when the scouts first landed on Dentus,
because they didn't know enough yet to distinguish between harmless
appliances and high voltage power supplies, for example...)

Raccoonids have no word in their language for dignity, and usually
fail to recognise it in other races.  Also, they have none themselves
- - dignity and decorum are not concepts they can assimilate.  "You can
dress them up, but you can't take them out to dinner" applies to the 
racoonid race.

Scout Base: The Imperial Scout Service has a base/recruiting station
on Dentus.  In the shattered imperium, the Domain of Deneb has elected
to keep the scout base on Dentus open.

Players' Notes: raccoonids are not funny little people in fuzzy suits.
Players may think, in fact some imperial citizens may think that
raccoonids are very silly.  Raccoonid behavior toward property, and
the raccoonid inability to take rank seriously is commonly
misinterpreted as childish or foolish by human standards.  Raccoonids
themselves actually take matters of social consensus, social equality,
and shared property very seriously, and think that alien attitudes on
these matters are the root of most of the disagreement in the universe
(Raccoonids are probably right...).


- --- End Included Text ---


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4266
Date: Sun, 31 May 1992 18:11 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: The 4.5th Frontier War (Chapter 2, Part 4)

               ON THE TRAIL
                    or
     Is there a doctor in the sector?
               - XXIX -
     The High Consular Hotel:  reservations made to nobles,
diplomats, and members of the Legion of Honor.  Posh place:
robotic servants, sophont servants, fine foods, the best luxuries
that to be had in the Consulate.  The wholeo of which represented
a gigantic show piece for visiting diplomats.  They see the
wonders of the Consulate and be eager to do business with them. 
There are more than one ways to conquer a sector.
     Jietlshaiepr sat nervously in the rented suite, "I've never
had recruiting duty, but, it seems like we've been looking an
awfully long time.  Shtam, you ever have to do this when you were
a factor in the merchant marine?"
     Shtam ran a hand through his hair and stretched.  "No, you
have to remember though I was working *inside* the Imperium.  We
hired our people in the Consulate and brought them to the post.
We could not trust the Imperials.  It was an interesting time
though."
     "Where in hell were you?" yawned Niedrsha.
     "Right in the heart of the mess:  on Regina."
     A small golden sphere floated into the sumptuous room.
"Excuse the intrusion," it began in a humble voice, "There are
two Vargr here to see you.  They claim to be seeking employment
with you."
     "Send 'em in." gestured Niedrsha.
     The sphere retreated.  Moments later, the main entrance to
the suite opened.
     The two stood framed in the surveying the room.  Both were
rather tall for Vargr.
     The larger of the two wore a long bright red coat emblazoned
with gold braid and ribbons.  The leader no doubt.  He strode
into the room nonchalantly taking in the entire setup in a glance
and nodded to three Zhodani.  His fur was jet black save for his
white face with white eyebrows and white hands.
     "Good evening.  My name is Kfoks:  Force Leader Taek Kfoks.
And this is my lieutenant:  Force Subleader Tuerz."  Kfoks
gestured to his companion.
     Tuerz was nearly as tall as Kfoks, but incredibly slender.
She wore a tight black body suit and skirt which showed her tall
willowy form which moved with inhuman grace as she swayed forward
as if blown by a breeze.  Her fur was flaming red-orange with a
white face and black ear tips.  Her head swung slowly around
scrutinizing the entire room.  Satisfied for the moment she stood
beside Kfoks with hands on hips thrusting her chest slightly
forward.  Her eyes continued the surveillance of the room.
     "Greetings, Force Leader Kfoks," intoned Jietlshaiepr, "I am
Jietlshaiepr, this is pilot Niedrsha and engineer Shtam."
     "You advertized for ship crew members." stated Kfoks laying
a handful of holcrystal resumes on the table.  "I'm here to
represent five of us.  All with shipboard experience and
expertise."
     Jiet slid them into a terinal slot.  "Very good," she nodded
glancing them over.  "What types of vessels have you been on?"
     "Several types, most recently we all served on a frigate."
said Kfoks.
     "In what capacity?" asked Shtam.
     Kfoks drew a deep breath, "Three as fighter pilots, one as a
gunner and one as engineer.  Most of us have some experience as
engineers."
     "What sort of frigate was this?" wondered Shtam.
     "The Gdaekvorr:  an Urravek class frigate.  She was rather
on the old side though."
     Niedrsha leveled his gaze at Kfoks, "Were you in a corsair
band?"
     Tuerz swiveled around to face Niedrsha, her body moving as
though it were on a turntable.  She drew herself to her full
height.
     Kfoks smiled tightly, biting down.
     The bone transmitter sounded in Tuerz's skull, "No."
     "Yes, we were." nodded Kfoks.  He turned and put an arm
around Tuerz shoulder and scratched her behind the ears.  "But
that's over with for now.  Right now, we're looking for
transportation out of the Consulate, and we are more than willing
to hire on as your crew.  However, I must insist that if you
would hire one of us you must hire all.  We do not wish to be
separated."
     Tuerz barked a short laugh, "I wouldn't be to sure about
Stuzzel.  He wants out any way he can.   And I'd be willing to
let him go."
     "I see," said Jietlshaiepr, brushing her hair back over her
shoulders and stretching gloriously.  "And if we can not
accommodate you?"
     Kfoks folded his arms, "Then you can't accommodate us."
     Shtam spoke up. "Right now we need two gunners, and three
pilots, preferably with engineering and military experience."
     Kfoks raised an white eyebrow.  "That's us."
     Niedrsha asked, "What corsair band were you in?"
     "The Uekalez.  If that means anything to you."
     "The band broke up a few months ago." said Shtam.
     Kfoks sighed, "Well, yes and no.  We are broken up.  But we
didn't do it by ourselves.  We had an awful lot of help from a
group of particularly playful humans."
     "Oh?  What happened?" asked Jietlshaiepr.
     Kfoks muscles tensed, but he threw up a paw nonchalently,
and continued clamly.  "Well, we were going to sell them some
ships.  But when we delivered them, it seems that they didn't
fancy the idea of actually paying us for them.  Our leader took
exception to this.  Seems he rather liked money.  In any event
their ships fought our ships, our ships fought their ships...
     "But during the battle our captain decided that the better
part of valor was cowardice.  He tried to run us out of there.
Didn't quite make it, the jump drive was damaged.  We misjumped
far into the Consulate.  We five are the survivors,"
     "That would be from a crew of about twenty six but probably
was more than thirty." commented Shtam.
     Tuerz glanced sidelong at Shtam, "Thirty five."
     "Nice odds.  Sounds like fun." mumbled Niedrsha.
     Kfoks made a sweeping gesture with his tail, his tenseness
melted away like rain "Piece of mutton.  We were all in the
engine room.  The rest of the ship was torn apart.  We salvaged
what we could and sold her forscrap."
     "What band was this little scrap with?" wondered Niedrsha.
     "I'm afraid I haven't any idea." confessed Kfoks.  "Our
leader wasn't the confiding type.  Had a pretty large support
system though.  Good resources."
     "What makes you say so?" asked Jietlshaiepr.
     "Their fleet.  They had several large warships.  Including
an Azhanti High Lightning class cruiser, a tender in the forty
thousand ton range that looked an awful lot like the Star Rider
which was destroyed, a few Zhodani and Sword Worlds ships in the
destroyer range:  two and three thousand tons, a Kinunir class
battle cruiser, and a host of other smaller ships and escorts."
     Jietlshaiepr exchanged glances with Niedrsha.  The muscles
in Shtam's jaw tightened.
     Kfoks paused and ran his claws through the fur on his head.
"A fleet like that needs a lot of supporting equipment and bases.
They must have a government subsidizing them."
     "The odd thing about the battle," he continued, "was that
while those ships were there, they didn't take much of an active
part in the battle.  They stayed off at extreme range and sent in
fighters.  And the fighters!  They sent Shtelfires and
Shorichans!  They haven't been used since the third frontier war
one hundred years ago.  And they were completely obsolete then."
     Shtam frowned.  "Well," he objected, "the Shtelfire was one
of the best fighters ever built, an excellent design for tech
level twelve.  I restored one once for a museum.  The battle of
Farreach over in Jewell subsector was fought and won by young
Zhodani's in Shtelfires.  And unless I'm mistaken they were used
in the fourth frontier war by Consular client states."
     Kfoks shook his head, "That was twenty years ago.  Those
states have newer cast offs from the Consulate now."
     "Nevertheless," continued Shtam, "the Shtelfire was one of
the best fighters ever built.  They're collector's items now.
Highly effective in combat."
     "I agree," sighed Kfoks wryly, "I can testify to their
effectiveness in combat personally."
     Jietlshapier sighed impatiently "Where exactly did you see
the Kinunir class battle cruiser?"
     "Zylath, down in Jungleblut subsector."
     Niedrsha considered it, "That's in the Domain of Alntzar."
     "That's right."
     Jietlshaiepr exchanged glances with Niedrsha and Shtam each
nodded in turn.  "Would you care to show us exactly where?" she
asked.
               - XXX -
     Warning lights and sirens announced the approaching tilly.
Like a metal tyrannosaurus, it lumbered up the ramp to the
Flamboyant's cargo hold.  Its motors whined as its piston legs
crested the cargo ramp.  It carried the crates of arms the vargr
had managed to salvage from the wreck of the frigate,
approximately one hundred and fifty kilos.
     The armored face plate of the modified cargo carrier went
down and Stuzzel poked his light brown muzzle out.  "Hey, uh,
Sitlshaper, where do you want this equipment?"
     Tuerz shook his head in disgust.  He had gotten rid of the
skirt and his fur was pure white to match his tight body suit.
The lack of breasts made his slender frame look even more frail
than before.  "Look you oaf, her name is Jietlshaiepr, and if
you'd use your head once in a while instead of getting out of
practice with it, you'd realize that the guns just might be
something we may need access to in a hurry.  Don't bury it in the
back of the hold."
     "Grrrach!  Shut up, Snow White!  Just cause you won't soil
your lily white hands..."
     Tuerz stroked the handle of his laser pistol.
     Jietlshaiepr interrupted, "Over on the left side of the
hold, next to the food supplies." she ordered.
     "Blast these two!" she thought angrily, "If they keep
arguing I'll kill them both!  Twice!"
     Shtam watched as the tillys were used to load the
Flamboyant.  "Kfoks, how much can those things carry?"
     "The tillys?  I'm afraid it depends on how experienced the
operator inside is.  I believe the record was something like nine
hundred and eleven kilograms.  I can manage six hundred fairly
easily.  They were cargo carriers originally.  A friend of mine
modified them:  fusion gun, gauss rifle, RAM auto grenade
launcher.  They make for rather fun toys.  Rackhan's using mine
at the moment.  We have a third, but it needs repairs before we
can operate it."
     "Maybe I can help," mused Shtam.  "I'm pretty good with
machines."
     Kfoks shook his head.  "I'm afraid we need a robotics expert
Shtam.  The whole things in pieces."
     "I believe we have a robot expert."
     "Oh yes, aboard the Vixen.  Perhaps he can do it.  I want a
good look at that ship though.  I never thought I'd see that one
again.  She may have some interesting things aboard."
     "Oh?  For instance?"
     "Navigational information in the computer.  If you're right
about the Uekalez being completely broken up then perhaps we can
use ransack some of our emergency supply bases."
     "Good stuff?"
     Kfoks grinned "A start.  With it I can build up my empire."
     "Yes... I think I understand the vargr empire, it looks as
though you have a small start:  four followers."
     Kfoks looked Shtam straight in the eye. "That will build.
As I said, it's a start.  And revenge is always a good place to
get going, particularly when the object of that revenge is rich."
     "And powerful." warned Shtam.
     "That's where our association comes in:  we are working
towards the same end."
     "We just want the doctor back."
     "The doctor probably wants vengeance too."
     "Perhaps.  Who knows?"
     Kfoks mused a moment.  Finally he cocked his head, and
examined Shtam more closely.  "You said you restored a Shtelfire
once, did you ever get to fly one?"
     Shtam laughed, "No, unfortunately not.  The museum would
barely let me warm up the engines."
     "What museum?"
     "Oh, actually it's in the Imperium:  Regina.  I was a factor
there, and I helped them fix it up.  They didn't like the idea of
a Zhodani taking up a Zhodani built fighter over their sector
capital even if it was not armed."
     "Wait a minute, was that the Imperial war museum?"
     "Yes."
     Kfoks nodded, "I've seen your work.  Good job."
     "Well, I had quite some time to work on it.  The ship I was
on had some major problems.  We had to order parts all the way
from the Consulate."
     "The Imperials didn't have the parts?"
     Shtam rolled his eyes.  "No.  But the company would not
allow us to use Imperial parts.  So we waited nine months to get
our requisition through for a Lanathnum drive core.  When it
arrived they had sent the wrong piece.  I tried to modify it, but
in the end it wouldn't charge properly.  I couldn't certify the
ship for jump, so we waited another three months.  We finally got
out."
     Kfoks eyed him intently.  "What did you think of the
Imperium?"
     "A very suspicious people.  They did not trust me very far.
Of course, I did not trust them either.  But it gave me a chance
to polish up my knowledge of ships.  Once I finished the
Shtelfire, I was allowed to work on other ships for the museum:
Rampart 128's.  Neat ships."
     "Yeah.  I like the newer Rampart IV's and V's though."
     "Yes, I prefer Zhodani models though, Kia class..."
     "Did you ever see the Imperial Aerobatics team?  The Blue
Angels?"
     "Once, they were flying modified Cobras.  Quite impressive."
     "They are using Viper 15-S's now.  And their flight leader
was one of the strangest looking beings I've ever seen:  an Ael
Yael or something.  It had wings.  I heard it was a female.  I'd
guess those things make pretty good pilots."
     "Yes, well if you or I had instincts for the air we would
too.  She was leader when I saw them.  The name was Kittan
Kboutle or something."
               - XXXI -
     "Vrrrrrrsh!" grumbled Stuzzel producing a reverberating echo
in the Flamboyant's officer lounge.  "Jump space is the most
boring krglish I've ever been in.  I think I might crawl in a low
berth and sleep through it."  The ponderous weight of the vargr
flowed and bounced as he shifted in his chair.  He yawned and
belched loudly and tossed away the dogeared magazine in a flurry
of colored pages.
     Jietlshaiepr could not read the cover of the magazine when
it fluttered to the deck, her Gveg was limited and the idiom of
the title made little sense when directly translated.  "Fragrant
White Wag" told little, the picture on the cover filled the rest:
a scantily clad young female vargr, seen from behind, perched on
top of a grav-bike.
     Her eyes rolled.  "Stupid barbarian", she thought and turned
in disgust.
     A stinging slap ripped across her backside.  She swung round
furious.
     "You're pretty good, even if ya aien't got no tail." laughed
Stuzzel.
     Jietlshaiepr leveled her gaze on him.  Slowly, deliberately
she took hold of his collar and lifted the obese vargr to within
a few millimeters from the ceiling.  "And your pretty disgusting
mister, tail not withstanding.  I may put you in one of the low
berths anyway."  She lowered him half a meter and dropped him.
     Niedrsha looked on warily.  "Jiet will teach 'em who's boss
around here soon." he thought.  He nodded to Jietlshaiepr and
spoke:  "Look Stuzz, we've got eight jumps to make before we get
to Zylath.  I think you'd better lay off a bit if you want to get
there."
     Stuzzel snorted, "*Why* should I want to get there?  That's
where we got trounced by the stupid human pirates."
     Kfoks ears shifted in annoyance and he looked up from a book
of gveg poetry.  "That IS the point, Mr. Stuzzel.  They probably
have a base there.  It's our opportunity to do a little
reconnaissance on them."
     "*Stuff* recon!" he snorted.  "I learned plenty about 'em."
     "Just what did you learn, Stuzzel?" inquired Shtam.
     "'Nough to know I don't want to fuck wif 'em!  They wiped
out our whole fuckin' fleet!  What good are we gonna do in one
escort even if we got a Vixen around?"
     "Reconnaissance, you vragh brained clod," explained Tuerz as
he flowed into the lounge gracefully, "is not a stand up fight.
Of course the idea of subterfuge might not occur to someone whose
idea of subtlety is a ton of high explosive."  He carried a large
thick plastic plack peppered with small holes and several nails
protruding.
     He wore a blue female outfit with his visible fur dyed
cream.  At his hip swung his prize possession:  an integral laser
pistol.  He had relieved it from an Imperial merchant with more
money than marksmanship.  The pistol itself was beautiful:
iridium plated with inlaid rubies and ivory.  The merchant had
paid a great deal for it:  eight guards and his own life. Tuerz
thought it a crime for such a weapon to be in the hands of
someone who could barely use it.  A blind vargr might value a
Dali, but he could never appreciate it as could one with sight.
     He twirled a small body pistol, "Would you all mind if I set
up a bit of target practice?  I've been getting soft on my
practice sessions, and if I let it go much longer I'll be as bad
a shot as Stuzzel is with a fusion gun."
     Stuzzel snorted indignantly.
     "In here?" asked Jietlshaiepr skeptically.
     "This is the longest room on the ship.  I can stand on the
bridge and shoot at this target."
     Kfoks waved his book at Jietlshaiepr, "Don't worry
Commander.  Tuerz won't damage anything.  He can nail a fly at
ten meters.  Here..."  Kfoks rose and placed a melon on his own
head to step in front of the target board.  "From the hip,
Tuerz."
     The pistol continued to gyrate in Tuerz paw for a moment as
Jietlshaiepr started to object.
     The body pistol barked.  A wisp of smoke issued from the
barrel.
     Kfoks pulled the melon from the crown of his head.  A neat
hole drilled precisely in the center.
     He showed it to Jietlshaiepr and then took a bite of it.
     "Very well.  Go ahead." she sighed.  "But, no more shots
like that.  I don't feel like taking the time to study vargr
cranial anatomy just to dig out slugs."
     "Can I try that one on you Tuerz?" laughed Stuzzel.
     "Shut up or I'll put a hole in your head to equalize the
vacuum." snarled Tuerz.
     For emphasis Tuerz swung around to face the target board.
Suddenly, his chest exploded.  A nail was driven into the board
with deadly accuracy.
     Tuerz turned back while a small wisp of smoke issued from
the false breasts in his disguise.
     "Nice shot." called Niedrsha.
     Jietlshaiepr sighed, "Would you *Mind* using a silencer?"
               - XXXII -
          Enoc E484000-0
     Kfoks surveyed the Vixen's deck.  All in order.  She had
gone through a lot before they tried to sell her.  Stressed out
bulkheads patched with whatever metal scraps that came to hand.
She was in sorry shape yes, but she could fight at least one more
battle.  After all she had only been designed to go into one
battle, she had exceeded that along time ago.
     Tuerz slipped through the airlock in female dress.  His fur
was dyed bright red to match the dress he wore.
     "Hello there."
     Kfoks turned, Tuerz whirled.  A vargr woman stood appraising
them from a corridor.  She was strongly built and very
attractive.  The lighting shone off the orange and tan of her fur
as she stood with her tail at attention with just a hint of a
slight wag.
     Kfoks own tail twitched involuntarily.  "Good evening.  My
name is Kfoks, Force Leader Taek Kfoks."  He took her hand.  "You
must be Gresha.  This is my lieutenant:  Force Subleader Tuerz."
     "Just your lieutenant, Force Leader Kfoks?" asked Gresha
nodding to the feminine Tuerz.
     "Just."
     Gresha stepped forward and ran a paw over the flowing
synsilk of his uniform.  "You were in the Uekalez weren't you?"
     "Yes we were.  But that's a long story, and where are you
from, First Lieutenant Gresha?"
     "All over, I was in several corsair bands at different
points.  Some of them got old pretty quickly.  I switched around
a lot.  I get bored without the proper attention."
     Miakr watched Kfoks and Gresha for a moment as they stood
closely, then loudly stepped into the room sighing inwardly. 
"Well, she was too blasted pushy anyway..."
          - XXXIII -
     "Well what do you think kid?  Can you do it?" Kfoks studied
Miakr's face trying to read the unfamiliar human expressions
crossing it.
     Miakr looked back and forth from the designs to the bulk of
the disassembled Tilly.  "Well, it's quite a job.  It'll take
some time.  You've got the parts, but as for labor, if you were
to get this repaired professionally, I'd guess the labor alone
would be about one hundred and thirty five thousand."
     Kfoks's tail dropped.  "You'll get it."
     "Do you have it?"
     Kfoks paused.  "Not yet, but soon."
     "You might not have to pay in cash." Miakr confided softly.
     This human may be more shrewd than he acts.  "What exactly
are you after?"
     "Nothing specific... yet.  But you will certainly owe me a
favor."
     "Payment like that," thought Kfoks, "is usually more
expensive than the cash."

------------------------------

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Subject: TML Bundle #355: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
4283  02-Jun-92 cat@fgssu1.fgs.sl silly vehicles << I *NEVER* design vehicles, 
4284  02-Jun-92 Hans Rancke-Madse Whatever happened to What's-his-name? << Does
4285  02-Jun-92 Hans Rancke-Madse Starship design tricks << Robert S. Dean writ
4286  02-Jun-92 gwh@lurnix.COM    Re: Fighting Ships... << Long, Long followup 
4287  03-Jun-92 Hans Rancke-Madse More Re: Fighting Ships... << George W. Herbe
4288  03-Jun-92 Robert S. Dean    [Chuck: Re: GDW] << On the subject of piracy 
4289  03-Jun-92 Hans Rancke-Madse Rebellion Wars and Hard Times << George W. He
4290  03-Jun-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Rotary Engine Aircraft in Traveller << "In th
4291  03-Jun-92 Traveller Mailing Re: Oh, No! More Wildstar! << > From: popeet!
4292  03-Jun-92 A_COPEAB@CCSVAX.S jump shuttles << Back when the jump shuttle i

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4283
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 92 13:03:51 PDT
From: cat@fgssu1.fgs.slb.COM (Rather B. Fishing)
Subject: silly vehicles 



I *NEVER* design vehicles, since so many other people do it much
better than I do.  However, after Scott did the shopping cart, I 
had a passing fancy that we really needed to have a design for...

CraftID:	Baby Buggy, TL15, Cr 501
Hull:		(1/1) Disp=0.01, Config=OUSL, Armor=1G
		Unloaded=10.2Kg, Loaded=20Kg
Power:		Sophont=0.035kw
Loco:		(1/1) Wheels=4, Road=5Kph, Offroad=1Kph
Sensors:	Kiddnapper Detector with Alarm System
Off/Def:	Rubber Baby Buggy Bumpers, Fabric Reversible 2-Position
		Environment Shield, Restraining Harness
Control:	Direct
Accom:		Seat=RoomyInfant*1
Other:		EMLevel=Mod, ObjSize=Small


Catie Helm
cat@piggy.fgs.slb.com _or_ cat@fgssu1.sinet.slb.com


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4284
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Whatever happened to What's-his-name?
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 92 22:05:06 MET DST

Does anybody know what has become of Steve Higginbotham? We've
had nary a peep out of him for over a week.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"I know there are some people in the world who do not tolerate their
fellow human beings, and I just can't _stand_ people like that!"
                                (after Tom Lehrer)

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4285
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Starship design tricks
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 92 22:11:17 MET DST

Robert S. Dean writes:

> 2G Scott writes, with regard to Imperial Lines:
>
> > There is also an article on reducing starship fuel requirements.
> > Not bad, I've been thinking of writing that one up myself.
> > Essentually, they discuss powering down your fusion plant during
> > jump.  Other than that, we've heard it all before.
>
> I'd even worked this one out, but haven't ever gotten around to posting it
> on the net.  It seems reasonable that during your week in jump you would
> only need life support power.

And merchant ships also count on spending several days of each jump in
orbit or on the ground, so you can get away with even less maneuver fuel.
One thing: The text of the article says that you can power a power-plant
partway down, but the examples implies that you need three different
power-plants. Sigh!


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "A  subsector  official  pompously states that the
        subsector  armed  forces  have  four Kinunir class
        ships in service,  each with enough troop strength
        to put down any military operations that threathen
        the peace of the Imperium."

                        ---Adventure 1, The Kinunir

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4286
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 92 14:43:40 PDT
From: gwh@lurnix.COM (George W Herbert)
Subject: Re: Fighting Ships...

Long, Long followup here... sorry for the bulk 8-(

Hans and I are basically arguing over what happens as the Civil War
tapers off into the Hard Times and the new night.  My opinion is that
due to continuing action by the main combatants in the wars (Lucan
vs. Dulinor for the most part) the planets won't have an opportunity
to get their feet underneath them.  Given that from all appearances
most of the factions were still fighting (with what they had available)
as late as the end of Hard Times's timeline, and that they have large
safe areas to provide continuing materiel for the wars, I doubt that
worlds in war zones will ever really be able to get back on their
feet.
	The central argument isn't over wether GDW is right or wrong.
I agree that they're being silly expecting us to believe that 5 billion
people can't pay 1Cr each for a couple of starships for local defense.
What I do believe is that it's likely that the situation of devastatedw
war zones following the civil war is likely, that it will result in
massive disruption and loss of space capability, and that recovery
will not start until the wars are more over than they are now.
Tens of subsectors of "black war" areas are not going to recover on
their own; you can't rebuild high tech civilization locally if it's
been obliterated.  I don't think that recovery will be all that fast
in the other damaged areas, either.  And it hasn't started yet.

>Read the rest of my article. I'm talking about recovery. 'Hard Times'
>states that the Black War is over, ground to a halt through exhaustion.

	There seems to be some confusion about when the black wars end and
the recovery (or long night, in the other direction) begins.  My reading
of Hard Times indicates that as of the end of it's timeframe, Dulinor
and Lucan were still shooting at each other as energetically as they could
keep doing sustainably.  The "recovery" won't start until they stop
drafting everyone/taxing everyone/pressing starships into service to
support the war.

>>Imagine a subsector at war. We have two sides fighting, evenly matched,
>And right here your example breaks down. The likelihood of the two
>sides being evenly matched is very small. I'm not saying that the
>scenario you presents cannot come to pass, but it will not come to
>pass all over the Outlands and Wilds. And of course, if one side is
>significantly stronger then it can destroy the smaller side, but my
>argument is that the stronger side will then be a light in the dark,
>so for your argument you have a chance the two sides must be roughly
>equal. OK, let's assume they are.

The central area fighting was between two closely matched opponents
for most of the war.  This explains where all the merchants went
(destroyed).  I didn't say that it applied once the war stops (if it
does).

>>with one BatRon, two CruRons, and a hundred or so miscelanous
>>smaller vessels and escorts.
>
>Hold it! Where are my system defense forces? I insist on my system
>defence forces. Lots and lots of system defense forces. Remember my
>example? The first thing you do is build non-jumpships enough to
>defend against whatever number of jumpships your opponent have. Not
>forgetting planetbound or orbital meson gun batteries. Cost a less
>than even a battlerider, much less a battleship, so you can have a
>lot more of them defending than your opponent can have ships to attack
>you with. If he builds nothing but jumpships you can build a more than
>adequate defense fleet and still have a little left over for a small
>raiding force. If he also builds some defense forces you can have more
>jumpships. What you'll most likely have is both sides having a balanced
>force. Since we stipulated that they are evenly matched, neither side can
>hope to defeat the opponent. They can destroy his colonies, but why? All
>you achieve is getting your own colonies destroyed in retaliation.

Ok, you've built system defense forces.  Congratulations; Lucan's commander
on site says "Hey, Neat, A bunch of SDB's I can Use!" and they're his now.
Don't think it will happen?  It's alluded to several times in Hard Times
and various Challenge articles.  Great way to keep the local system
defense forces down.

>>This is a common problem; you're caught between conflicting goals of
>>concentration of force for offensive goals and protecting worlds,
>>which requires a spread out force. It gets even worse when you play
>>this on a larger scale; if the bad guys get past the strategic front
>>lines, then they're in a whole subsector you were treating as safe,
>>and they have weeks of time to go raid before you can move strategic
>>reserves around.
>
>Sure, once you begin having opposing polities with more than one high-
>population planet in each, once one side can muster enough offensive
>power to overwhelm the defenses of opposing high-population worlds,
>you get problems. They are more likely to result in one side defeating
>the other than in both sides destroying each other. The chance that
>_all_ high-population planets on _both_ sides getting scragged is
>not big.

Over ten years, with safe home areas and a large central disputed
reigon, I can only see the disputed areas being more or less destroyed.

>>And it's not that difficult to get past someone's lines; space tends
>>to be Porous, if you have fuel support (or convenient poorly defended
>>gas giants).
>
>Yes. Much like naval conflicts during the Napoleonic Wars. The problems
>involved were well-nigh identical. Loose contact with an enemy force
>and you could spend disproportionate forces trying to intercept them.
>You should try and read a few books about it and see how they coped.

I have.  The analogy is really quite poor; the sea is a continum, whereas
deep space with jump capable starships is discrete.  Worse, it's
difficult to sail past an enemy and miss him, but easy to jump
past him as he's going to where you came from...  If I want to
push past an enemy force, it's trivially easy.  I've done a bunch of 
game simulations with this; I never was stopped (and never was able
to stop) penetrations of rear areas unless there was favorable
terrain.  Doing so while simultaneously protecting your own home
area is more difficult, but can be done if you get the oponnent 
thinking defensively.

[telling a naval architect and historian to go read about the
Napoleonic Wars at sea indeed 8-P 8-) ]

>>The only strong position in a war like this is the one strong world
>>with several weaker worlds within easy jump distance, with no
>>further-away defensive needs.
>
>Which is exactly the situation I was talking about. Not that it's the
>only one. If the two sides are evenly matched then the chances are
>that each of the main worlds on both sides will have defenses strong
>enough to withstand the otther side's attack force.

That's great, if that world survives the onset of Hard Times, which
it looks like few really have.  If it's left trashed and defenseless
when the war grinds down, it'd better get its feet under itself FAST.
And from the look of Hard Times, the war isn't really quite over in
the real areas of conflict.

>>And even there you run the risk of misguessing on concentrating force.
>>The bad guys only need to outnumber you in one place at one time to win
>>in the end, because if they can do it once a year to 10% of your merchants,
>>you lose in 10 years.
>
>Here you're completely wrong. If by 'bad guys' you mean my equal-in-
>strength rival then even if he destroys all my colonies I still have
>my mainworld. As Wildstar pointed out, trade is not all that important
>to a high-population world. If by 'bad guys' you mean pirates then I
>1) have enough strength to defend against them at all my colonies, and
>2) only have to stave them off for a year or two until their ships
>break down.

They only have to find one hi-tech world that can and will maintain
them to threaten a quarter of a sector effectively.  Buying pirates
off by supporting them might look very good for some worlds as things
go to hell...

>>I'm not going to defend the three or four order of magnitude drop in
>>military force that the Hard Times have brought on, nor of Merchant
>>activity. Personally, one and a half to two orders of magnitude is
>>justifiable. More is silly. But (and this is an important but) we'd
>>still be in the same mess with a one and a half order of magnitude

>You're mixing up war with an equal enemy and defense against piracy.
>Pirates may survive, they may even prosper under some circumstances
>(I think they would do quite well during the Hard Times), but they
>will never become a serious threat to the economic welfare of a high-
>population world, much less (as GDW insists) be the cause of their
>destruction. The whole concept is a contradiction in terms.

But that's what's happening; as the wars continue to sweep back and
forth across the frontier and outland regions, planets are alternatively
exposed to piracy and what's left of main-fleet actions.  Little
planets fold up and die under this; big ones get very badly stomped.
Every time you think you're getting ahead, Dulinor makes another
thrust into the region and your defense forces either get
blown to bits by his fleet or they get drafted by Lucan to help
stave off this latest assault...

>And then, say that the pirates can destroy a polity. Answer me this:
>Who's maintaining the pirates' ships? Who's going to destroy their base
>if they're so powerful? And wouldn't their base then become a center of
>recovery? I have no quarrel with then concept of a lot of dirty deeds
>and carnage during the Hard Times, but the concept that the whole
>Imperium will kilkenny itself is ludicrous.

Ok, we get some centers of recovery.  _After_ the wars grind down.
That hasn't happened yet, and doesn't look like it will happen soon.

- -george


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4287
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: More Re: Fighting Ships...
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 92 3:49:22 MET DST

George W. Herbert replies:

>Hans and I are basically arguing over what happens as the Civil War
>tapers off into the Hard Times and the new night.

It seems more to me that we're arguing about wether the civil war has
tapered off by 1128 or not. I don't have my 'Hard Times' with me, so
I may be misremembering. If so, I apologize. I'll check when I get
home and let you know.

>From what I remember, 'Hard Times' says something like this: Things
kept getting worse. Now the war has ground down, the big guys have
only enough left to protect their Safes. Here's a way to figure out
what happened to the rest of the worlds up until 1128. [Roll lots
of dice; consult lots of tables]. Some planets end up looking like
this: [Population 5 billion, Starport B, Tech D]. These worlds try
to make it on their own, but they can only stave off the inevitable.
In ten more years they will all have fallen apart. One reason is the
terrible menace of pirate bands with 6, 8, TEN ships!! Wow, the PCs
are all that stand between Indro the Lightless and the defenseless
planet. Can they save it? The suspense is killing! (:-P )

Most of my arguments are based on the premise that the war is over.
If it isn't you have an answer to the most pressing problem: Who is
it who keeps bombing these planets? Still, although I admit that in
that case you have a stronger position, I have a few arguments about
that too. Namely, why bother? Oh, sure, the planets directly on the
path between Lucan and Dulinor might get the bi-annual planetbuster
treatment, but why should Lucan or Dulinor waste badly needed ships
and missiles on worlds that are way off where the other side don't
have any strategic reason to come either? Lucan was forced to stop
his assaults on one rival when he got a mad on against another. He
dosen't have infinite ressources. Nor does anyone else. If GDW had
portrayed these pirates as renegade fleet squadrons things would have
been different. The planetary defense force that can stave off a
Trillion Credit Squadron might be worth stealing (except that anyone
who wanted to steal it would have to use 5 or 6 badly needed TCS's to
do so, but let that lie), but who would bother to steal 700 fighters,
25 small jump shuttles and 10 converted 600 T merchants?

>My opinion is that
>due to continuing action by the main combatants in the wars (Lucan
>vs. Dulinor for the most part) the planets won't have an opportunity
>to get their feet underneath them.

This will only affect worlds that are between Lucan and Dulinor's Safes.
Other factions are behaving considerably saner.

>Given that from all appearances
>most of the factions were still fighting (with what they had available)
>as late as the end of Hard Times's timeline, and that they have large
>safe areas to provide continuing materiel for the wars, I doubt that
>worlds in war zones will ever really be able to get back on their feet.

Oh, there are ways. See later.

>      The central argument isn't over wether GDW is right or wrong.
>I agree that they're being silly expecting us to believe that 5 billion
>people can't pay 1Cr each for a couple of starships for local defense.
>What I do believe is that it's likely that the situation of devastated
>war zones following the civil war is likely, that it will result in
>massive disruption and loss of space capability, and that recovery
>will not start until the wars are more over than they are now.

Depends on how over they are. That's apparently the essential
disagreement between us.

>Tens of subsectors of "black war" areas are not going to recover on
>their own; you can't rebuild high tech civilization locally if it's
>been obliterated.  I don't think that recovery will be all that fast
>in the other damaged areas, either.  And it hasn't started yet.

But that's just my point. GDW tells us how bad it is and tells us that
that's so bad that these planets can't recover on their own. I say they
can if they're left alone by the Big Guys. The Big Guys can clobber them
down to the stone age if they want to, no argument there. But that's not
what GDW says happens.

>>>with one BatRon, two CruRons, and a hundred or so miscelanous
>>>smaller vessels and escorts.
>>
>>Hold it! Where are my system defense forces? I insist on my system
>>defence forces. Lots and lots of system defense forces. Remember my
>>example? The first thing you do is build non-jumpships enough to
>>defend against whatever number of jumpships your opponent have. Not
>>forgetting planetbound or orbital meson gun batteries. Cost a less
>>than even a battlerider, much less a battleship, so you can have a
>>lot more of them defending than your opponent can have ships to attack
>>you with. If he builds nothing but jumpships you can build a more than
>>adequate defense fleet and still have a little left over for a small
>>raiding force. If he also builds some defense forces you can have more
>>jumpships. What you'll most likely have is both sides having a balanced
>>force. Since we stipulated that they are evenly matched, neither side can
>>hope to defeat the opponent. They can destroy his colonies, but why? All
>>you achieve is getting your own colonies destroyed in retaliation.
>
>Ok, you've built system defense forces.  Congratulations; Lucan's commander
>on site says "Hey, Neat, A bunch of SDB's I can Use!" and they're his now.
>Don't think it will happen?  It's alluded to several times in Hard Times
>and various Challenge articles.  Great way to keep the local system
>defense forces down.

A planet is a big place. Hide those SDB's when any fleet comes through. Or
are you saying that Lucan, Dulinor et alii have enough strength to supervise
the building programs of all planets in the Outlands and the Wilds? I think
not.

Anyway, I'd much rather build meson gun batteries. Who is going to have
irreplacable starships shot to pieces in order to steal meson guns that
they don't have the ships to mount on, and that will propably get destroyed
before you can steal them? The English Navy was hard pressed, but when they
attacked shore batteries it was to destroy the guns there, not steal them.

>>>This is a common problem; you're caught between conflicting goals of
>>>concentration of force for offensive goals and protecting worlds,
>>>which requires a spread out force. It gets even worse when you play
>>>this on a larger scale; if the bad guys get past the strategic front
>>>lines, then they're in a whole subsector you were treating as safe,
>>>and they have weeks of time to go raid before you can move strategic
>>>reserves around.
>>
>>Sure, once you begin having opposing polities with more than one high-
>>population planet in each, once one side can muster enough offensive
>>power to overwhelm the defenses of opposing high-population worlds,
>>you get problems. They are more likely to result in one side defeating
>>the other than in both sides destroying each other. The chance that
>>_all_ high-population planets on _both_ sides getting scragged is
>>not big.
>
>Over ten years, with safe home areas and a large central disputed
>region, I can only see the disputed areas being more or less destroyed.

Once again, that's not what GDW says happens.

>>Yes. Much like naval conflicts during the Napoleonic Wars. The problems
>>involved were well-nigh identical. Loose contact with an enemy force
>>and you could spend disproportionate forces trying to intercept them.
>>You should try and read a few books about it and see how they coped.
>
>I have.  The analogy is really quite poor; the sea is a continum, whereas
>deep space with jump capable starships is discrete.

Perhaps you can recommend me a few books, then. The ones I've read says
that although interceptions at sea did happen, in far the most cases it
was in places where the geography forced ships to use comparatively
narrow sea lanes. Mostly ships were intercepted near the start or near
the end of their trip. Thus the analogy is reasonably close.

>Worse, it's difficult to sail past an enemy and miss him,

Well, if you as a historian will tell me that the annals of the various
Napoleonic Naval services is not chock full of ship trying to intercept
other ships and failing, and that most interceptions took place in open
sea...

>but easy to jump
>past him as he's going to where you came from...  If I want to
>push past an enemy force, it's trivially easy.

No argument there. My argument was that you wouldn't have a force large
enough to damage his mainworld.

>[telling a naval architect and historian to go read about the
>Napoleonic Wars at sea indeed 8-P 8-) ]

Sorry, I did not get the impression from your posting that you were a
naval historian. I know better now.
Even so, let me suggest that you consider wether the difference between
sea (with communications limited to line-of-sight) is really _that_
different from Traveller space.

>>           If the two sides are evenly matched then the chances are
>>that each of the main worlds on both sides will have defenses strong
>>enough to withstand the otther side's attack force.
>
>That's great, if that world survives the onset of Hard Times, which
>it looks like few really have.

Which it looks like quite a lot have. There's three or four in the three
sub-sectors that GDW have published so far.

>If it's left trashed and defenseless
>when the war grinds down, it'd better get its feet under itself FAST.

I make it 12 weeks. That fast enough for you? And you're still assuming
that they get ground down to zero, nada, zilch; that they didn't manage to
hide a few ships here and there, that they've been sitting on their thumbs
for the last 5 years, and that no masterless squadrons will turn up and
apply for work (with the personnel policy that Lucan uses I'd expect
quite a lot of admirals will move elsewhere rather than report back that
they failed to carry out their orders :-).

>And from the look of Hard Times, the war isn't really quite over in
>the real areas of conflict.

Have we got different versions of 'Hard Times'?

>                              If by 'bad guys' you mean pirates then I
>>1) have enough strength to defend against them at all my colonies, and
>>2) only have to stave them off for a year or two until their ships
>>break down.
>
>They only have to find one hi-tech world that can and will maintain
>them to threaten a quarter of a sector effectively.  Buying pirates
>off by supporting them might look very good for some worlds as things
>go to hell...

Groan! That's what I've been saying. Now that high-population planet at
least has a defense force (they also have the ressources to support
those pirates in luxury, so why are the fool pirates going off raiding
instead of staying and defending their meal ticket?) No, it makes no
sense. Any pirate group strong enough to defeat the defenses of a high-
population planet will either be supported already (and thus have no
interest in attacking it) or will take over that planet (and thus
become their defenders).

>>You're mixing up war with an equal enemy and defense against piracy.
>>Pirates may survive, they may even prosper under some circumstances
>>(I think they would do quite well during the Hard Times), but they
>>will never become a serious threat to the economic welfare of a high-
>>population world, much less (as GDW insists) be the cause of their
>>destruction. The whole concept is a contradiction in terms.
>
>But that's what's happening; as the wars continue to sweep back and
>forth across the frontier and outland regions, planets are alternatively
>exposed to piracy and what's left of main-fleet actions.  Little
>planets fold up and die under this; big ones get very badly stomped.

>Every time you think you're getting ahead, Dulinor makes another
>thrust into the region and your defense forces either get
>blown to bits by his fleet or they get drafted by Lucan to help
>stave off this latest assault...

No they don't. They hide their forces from big fleets and whale
the tar out of any pirates that come along. A planet is big. A
star system is really big. How many ships do you imagine Lucan
or Dulinor can afford to send on these recruiting missions? How
long can they stay and search?

>>And then, say that the pirates can destroy a polity. Answer me this:
>>Who's maintaining the pirates' ships? Who's going to destroy their base
>>if they're so powerful? And wouldn't their base then become a center of
>>recovery? I have no quarrel with then concept of a lot of dirty deeds
>>and carnage during the Hard Times, but the concept that the whole
>>Imperium will kilkenny itself is ludicrous.
>
>Ok, we get some centers of recovery.  _After_ the wars grind down.
>That hasn't happened yet, and doesn't look like it will happen soon.

I guess we do have different editions...


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "And now to conclude and to finish my song.
         Let us hope that these hard times, they will not last long.
         I hope soon to have occasion to alter my song;
         and sing: All the good times of the Empire.
              In the Empire are jolly good times."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4288
Date:     Wed, 3 Jun 92 9:25:37 EDT
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  [Chuck:  Re: GDW]

On the subject of piracy and Hard Times, I recently received this message from 
Chuck Gannon, who gave me permission to forward it on to the TML.  You'll note
his CIS adress is included, so you can question him directly if you please...

Rob Dean

(He didn't say not to...)



- ----- Forwarded message # 1:

From: Chuck <76234.2216@CompuServe.COM>

Re: piracy.  Yes, those hi-pop worlds sure can crank out the patrolling 
forces.  But my logic was as follows;
 (you may submit this for inclusion on TML, if you wish)

In the wind-down period of the Rebellion (let us call them the Black War 
years), the consequences of sustained strategic combat are being felt by
even the most unscathed surviviors.  Merchant fleets are in tatters, indust-
ries that once were part of an integrated market are rapidly realizing that
they can no longer be a big specialized cog in a bigger Imperial machine.
They will have to go solo now, since the Imperium--and the commercial matrix
that pervaded it--has dissolved (or rather, disintegrated).  This means that
they must initiate the difficult process of retooling for maximum self-
sufficiency.  They must move to the more primite (see Aristotles __Politics-s_
for the source) economic state of generalization and self-reliance in all 
things.  In effect, every planet begins --perforce--to think of itself as 
a separate `machine' not a cog.  

The retooling necessary to actuate such a shift is immense.  Real world 
examples would include the USA trying to go back to a 100% domestic economy;
we could probably do it, but the cost would be horrific.  Workforce dis-
locations, currency instability, decreased commercial and investment potent-
ial; there would be violence, unrest, confusion.  And as a result, an 
increasingly isolationist view (economic isolation DOES tend to be a vicious
and self-amplifying cycle).

While all this is going on, the big whigs on any planet have one thing upper
- -most in their mind: to hang on to as much tech level as they can.  TL is 
the primary chip in the interstellar poker game of survival, dominance, 
aability to enforce one's sovreign right to govern oneself (or others!).  So
in the midst of all the economic and industrial restructuring, there is ano-
ther expensive imperative; retain as high a level of technology as can be
self-sustained.  A tricky balancing act.  This act is further complicated 
for worlds with less friendly biospheres.

Specifically, in the case of most industrial, hi-pop worlds, their environ-
ment is, virtually by definition, essentially inhospitable to terrestrial 
life.  Environment must be created and maintained; it is not delivered 
gratis by the planet.  Hi-pop means a tremendous food consumption capacity.
Food growing is expensive on such worlds--but manufacturing (ie; industrial
endeavor) is not.  This predicts the pre-war, peacetime economy; produce
those things which are cheap for you to make and bring in the highest price.
Use the profits to buy your needs.  This is more commercially rewarding than
making all your needs AND then making goods.  This stunts economies, limits
growth.  The only advantage of this brand of fiscal conservatism is that it
makes the economy/polity very self-reliant--not a big concern in the laissez
- -faire mindset that dominated the Third Imperium.

So what does all this mean?  It means that the worlds that COULD make all 
those defensive ships to combat piracy aren't doing so; they're busy frying
other fish that are essential to their survival.  In a few years, when the
retooling is all done and they feel that they have vouchsafed their own 
safety, THEN they might start trying to expand their protective envelope to
include other less developed systems.  But they are going to look out for
Number One first.  And it will take until 1130 (and trillions upon trillions
of credits) to achieve this.

Here the problem exists that while since TCS we have had a way of getting
very clear numbers regarding costs and maintenance of fleet assets, we do 
not have a mechanism for calculating the cost of the massive retooling
necessitated by Hard Times.  Nor do I think such a mechanism is required;
history and common sense both tell us that the costs will be HUGE--huge
enough to paralyze even the largest powers into isolationistic, protectionists
t stances until they have recovered from this era of displacement.

In my view, by 1130, that process of restructuring will have progressed to
the point that the surviving polities (whether multi-system or single world)
will have worked out a means of existing in this new universe.  At this poin
- -t, there will be a tendency to retake space from the elements of chaos
(piracy and other thuggery).  At the same time, the best spoils are likely
to have been found and picked clean by these interstellar vultures.  So as
their sustenance diminishes, resistance rises--forcing piracy back into it
s box, awaiting its next opportunistic feeding time.

Sorry for the long sermon, but that's what was in the back of MY mind when
I wrote HT.  What GDW did with it after they got it (it was changed in 
a few ways, some of which I liked, some of which I didn't) and what GDW 
intends to do next are completely out of my hands.  I envisioned a one-decad
- -e balkanization period.  In the end however, Lucan is too big and unstable
a loose cannon to be endured; the need to end his threat and depredations
was to serve as the basis of an alliance, pitting a coalition of pluralist-
minded governments against his autocratic and Caligulistic monolith.

Well, Rob, right or wrong--that's how I saw it. And to me, the beauty of 
Traveller is that it MAY be wrong--or at least everybody is free to pursue
their own vision.  At least that's how I always saw it; games should be what
make us happy and give us pleasure.  Adherence to `published fact' as 
though it is some kind of rosetta stone is at best naive, at worst, suggest-
ive of a need for external order.  Gaming is (or should be) a form of expre-
ssing and reaffirming our own freedom to do and be anything (vicariously);
we should not feel compelled to follow what we do not like.  Certainly, the
(ostensible) point of a manufactured game aid is to provide refs (and player
ss) with opportunities for fun experiences.  But unfortunately, as the 
gaming industry has grown, so has the dominance of marketing-oriented though
t.  The people in charge today are businessmen more than gamers, and it show
s.  The products may be glossier, but I think they are less responsive--and
sensitive--to what many gamers really want.  So I feel that in this period
of our hobby's history, we must be highly individualistic, ever ready to
decide for ourselves which is the wheat and which is the chaff.

Yes, you can print all that on TML if you wish.  Be well, have fun,
hope to hear from you soon.

Chuck

PS: I hope you explained to Loren that we had discussed the use of your
designs (ie; that it was not data piracy!).  Thanks.


- ----- End of forwarded messages

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4289
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Rebellion Wars and Hard Times
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 92 16:03:30 MET DST


George W. Herbert wrote a whole lot, most of it based on the premise that
the Rebellion Wars were still going full throttle during the timeframe of
'Hard Times'. I replied:

> It seems more to me that we're arguing about wether the civil war has
> tapered off by 1128 or not. I don't have my 'Hard Times' with me, so
> I may be misremembering. If so, I apologize. I'll check when I get
> home and let you know.

I've checked it. By 1125, when 'Hard Times' starts, the wars are mostly
over. Lucan is still making warlike noices in the breaks between his
tantrums, but, and I quote, "The fighting is effectively over: The com-
batants are too drained to mount the massive campaigns that caracterized
the first five years of the Rebellion." (p. 8). (Also: "By the beginning
of 1125, the factional core areas have achieved basic stability. Military
forces have withdrawn to lines that can be reliably defended..." (p. 12)).

'Hard Times' then shows us how to figure out how planets outside the
Safes are affected in the next three years. By the _end_ of this period
we have, in the three sample sub-sectors that GDW has published, these
planets (among many other): Khavle; Pop. 7 billion, Starport C, Tech B.
Aight; Pop. 70 billion, Starport C, Tech A. Westfir; Pop. 600 million,
Starport B, Tech B. Exeter; Pop. 400 million, Starport C, Tech B. And
the pearl of them all, Promise; Pop. 5 billion, Starport B, Tech D. This
is in 1128, mind you. These planets have all been through the Hard Times
wringer, and this is what they look like _after_ the ordeal. And these
are the planets that GDW claims are seriously threathened by pirate bands
with a few thousand tons worth of motley starships.

I wouldn't have complained if GDW had said that all these planets had
been bombed down to TL 3 in the war years, but to claim that they were
reduced to TL A-D and will slide the rest of the way by themselves,
nudged over the edge by the likes of Indro the Lightless and Cymon
Milligan, is just plain silly. If GDW wants these worlds to slide
further, they should provide believable menaces like renegade fleet
units. And there you run into the problem that these fleet units may
destroy some planets, but at the same time they will protect other.
To get half the Outlands and the Wilds to destroy the other half is
quite believable; but to get them _all_ to destroy each other calls
for a masterpiece of choreography worthy of a Hiver Manipulator.

Hmmm.... you don't suppose...

Nah!


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "And now to conclude and to finish my song.
         Let us hope that these hard times, they will not last long.
         I hope soon to have occasion to alter my song;
         and sing: All the good times of the Empire.
              In the Empire are jolly good times."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4290
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1992 11:02 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Rotary Engine Aircraft in Traveller

"In the nick of time, a hero arose:
 A funny looking vargr with a big black nose..."

A lot of people complain about COACC.  I kinda like it in some
ways.  But one problem is that it can't handle TL 5 aircraft.
There is only one engine available at TL5, and it is about
twice the full weight of most of the aircraft in the period.  So,
I thought I'd introduce the Rotary engine.  The best aircraft
engine of its day.

Back in World War I, the best engine available for aircraft was
the rotary engine.  It had the best thrust to weight ratio of all
aircraft engines of the time.  These are the engines you see on
the Sopwith Camel, and the Fokker Triplane, the DH-2, Fokker
Eindecker, etc. etc.

Very interesting engine.  They had trouble cooling normal radials
and in-lines so they hit upon an interesting solution:  rather
than bolt the prop to the crank case and the engine to the
firewall, they did it the other way around.  Thus, with the
engine bolted to the prop, the entire engine rotates with the
prop when running.

This leads to some interesting problems with maneuvering.  The
engine is rotating with a considerable angular momentum.  The
action is one of a gyroscope, and when the aircraft turns, the
gyro precesses.  When you turn right, the gyro precesses throwing
the nose up in the air and slowing the plane down.  When you turn
left, the nose will precess down, making the plane accelerate. 
Thus the plane will turn faster to the left than it will to the
right.  Also, you can not turn right on take off (Pilots:  This
may be the origin of the left handed traffic pattern)  Howard
Hughes nearly killed himself attempting to turn right on take
off.  He was injured so severely that he spent the rest of his
life addicted to pain killers.

Thus in a left turn, an aircraft's agility will be higher than it
is in a right turn.

Another problem with the engine is that it has a centrifugal fuel
feed.  As such, throttleing the engine is not possible.  The
engine has only an On-Off switch.  ("Switch off!")  This makes
landings difficult as the only way to slow down the plane is to
turn the engine on and off at intervals.  (You may have heard
this sound in WWI movies.  This is the "Brrr...  Brrr...  Brrr...
Brrr..." sound you hear as the planes are taxiing and when in the
approach to landing.)  With no throttle there is no cruise speed,
only the top speed of the aircraft.  Another difficulty is that
the engines must be hand cranked.  (Watch your FINGERS!)

Rotary engine:
..1 tons, 1.5ton thrust, Fuel=22 liters per hour, Cost=5000 Cr
Agility=+1 when turning left, -1 when turning right.  Twin engine
planes may avoid this difficulty by having contra-rotating props.

It is also possible to have your engine rotating in the opposite
direction, thus making it a right hand turn that would be faster,
but (at least on Earth) it was done this way.

These low tech open cockpit aricraft are popular among Vargr.
They were made popular by a Vargr folk hero on the planet Peanutz
when he single handedly defeated a legendary human aristocrat
pilot.  The battle is celebrated in song...

"Now Snoopy had sworn that he'd get that man,
 so he asked Yaskodray for a new battle plan
 He challenged the human to a real dog fight
 while the Baron was laughing,
 he got him in his sights!"

CraftID:	Fokker Triplane, TL5, Cr 17000
Hull:		(2/5) Disp=2, Airframe=SimpleSTOL
		Unloaded=.43, Loaded=.5
Loco:		(1/1) Rotary Propeller=1.5t Dur=3hrs
		Min=45Kph, Top=300Kph
		Agility=(6 left turn) (4 right turn) else=5
Off/Def:	MMG*2 (100 rnds each)
Control:	Simple
Accom:		Crew=1 (Simple Cockpit)
Other:		Fuel=.065kl, EMLevel=Mod, ObjSize=Small


CraftID:	Vargr Sopwith Camel, TL 5 Cr 16100
Hull:		(2/5) Disp=2, Airframe=SimpleSTOL
		Unloaded=.33, Loaded=.4
Loco:		(1/1) Rotary Propeller=1.5t, Dur=3hrs
		Min=57, Top=300, (with bombs: Top=294)
		Agility=(6 left turn) (4 right turn) else=5
		(with bombs all agilities minus 2)
Off/Def:	MMG*2, (100 rnds each)
		Outboard Hpts *2, (max external load=140 kg)
Control:	Simple
Accom:		Crew=1 (simple cockpit)
Other:		Fuel=.065kl, EMLevel=Mod, ObjSize=Small
		Rarely carries bombs

Scott "2G" Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4291
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 92 12:29:07 EDT
From: Traveller Mailing List Mail <tml@engrg.uwo.ca>
Subject: Re: Oh, No!  More Wildstar!


> From: popeet!wildstar@uunet.UU.NET (Derek Wildstar)
> [...]
> its approximate peak).  The Empire contained 10,497 main worlds with a
> population of about 16,731,817,153,000 sophonts.  The annual Gross Imperial
> Product is 219,474,958,700,000,000 Imperial Standard Credits.  The Imperium
> imposes a tax burden of about 1% of the GIP, producing Imperial revenues of
> about 2,194,749,587,000,000 Imperial Standard Credits per year.
> 
> Using the TCS starship construction rules in combination with (hopefully
> reasonable) assumptions about the types of ships constructed, I further
> calculated that there are 11,813,221 starships registered in the Imperium; 
> with an aggregate volume of 73,832,634,000 tons displacement.  The original
> article, along with the supporting data tables to support my conclusions,
> should be available from one of the TML FTP sites.  Recently, I have been
> looking at some of these figures more closely.

I found this artilcle very interesting, but I have a question about the
above data. I'm not certain of where you got the GIP from, but what does
the taxation rate have to do with the volume of shipping? Most of the
traders will either belong to MegaCorps, or to private traders, not the
government. Perhaps you could explain what assumptions that you used to
arrive at these figures, I may want my universe to have a different set
of assumptions....

				-Dan

Dan Corrin, Network Manager, Mechanical Engineering, UWO, London, Ontario
InterNet: dan@engrg.uwo.ca.                                (519) 661-3834
TML/CZ/FrameUsers/Consim FTP site: sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.100.12)     

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4292
Date:    Wed, 3 Jun 1992 11:28:32 -0500 (CDT)
From: A_COPEAB@CCSVAX.SFASU.EDU (Brandon Cope)
Subject: jump shuttles

Back when the jump shuttle idea was born, the jump grid was in the DRIVE, not
the HULL. Thus, there was no problem with using jump shuttles with non-jump
vehicles. It probably wouldn't cost much, or weigh much, to put jump grids into
non-jump ships (say, Cr1000 and 0.01 ton per max jump number times the ship's
tonnage [adjust jargon for MT]).


------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun Jun  7 21:00:15 PDT 1992
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #356: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
4293  03-Jun-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Another Silly WWI vehicle << Howdy! Heres one
4294  03-Jun-92 Jo Jaquinta       STORY Imperial Advisor Part 1 of 6 << THE IMP
4295  03-Jun-92 1 successful mont Using Maneuver Drives in Jumpspace << Submiss
4296  03-Jun-92 Mark F. Cook      MegaTraveller Journal #3 is available << My l
4297  04-Jun-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Hot Dogs Anyone? << More Fast Food Supersonic
4298  04-Jun-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Faster than a speeding bullet train! << Hey f
4299  04-Jun-92 lothie@syrinx.umd Directions to Wildstar's House - Housewarming
4300  05-Jun-92 jpb@umbio.med.mia MagiCon << I realize its a little premature, 
4301  05-Jun-92 Robert S. Dean    Re: [Steve_Higginbotham: ships of the black w
4302  05-Jun-92 goldman@orac.cray Re: Hotel of Death << > Okay, I did it. But I
4303  05-Jun-92 Robert S. Dean    MTJ#3 << I got my copy of MTJ#3 today, and it
4304  05-Jun-92 metlay@phyast.pit MTJ's Last Hurrah << If you get a chance, pic
4305  05-Jun-92 PCD               Precursors to a virus << Wildstar mentioned a
4306  05-Jun-92 gwh@lurnix.COM    Steve Higginbotham << I'm not the first to as
4307  05-Jun-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Mustang Sally << Mustang Sally! CraftID: '65 
4308  05-Jun-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Bucket T << Cruisin' down the street in front
4309  05-Jun-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Good evening Mr. Bond... << Hi, I was gonna t
4310  05-Jun-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU The 4.5th Frontier War (Chapter 2, Part 5) <<

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4293
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1992 11:47 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Another Silly WWI vehicle

Howdy!

Heres one that's pretty silly!  Designed for trench crossing. 
It's an extremely long tank (9 meters)  It's a fairly light
design so as to allow it to cross quickly and easily.

It looks like a large frame of steel pipes with tracks and a
turret.  There's a large armored box in the center of the
framework to protect the crew and motor.

CraftID:	Skeleton Tank TL5, Cr 12993
Hull:		(45/113) Disp=5, Config=0USL, Armor=6A,
		Unloaded=7.85, Loaded=8
Power:		(1/2) IntComb=32kw Dur=5hrs
Loco:		(2/4) Tracks, P/W=4, Road=15, Offroad=5
Sensors:	Headlight*2
Off:			Pen		Max		Auto
		Rnds	Attn	Dmg	Range		Tgts	Sig	ROF
MMG		1000	3/3	3	Vlong(1)	3	H	80
Control:	BasicMech*1
Accom:		Crew=2(Driver=1, Gunner=1) Seats=Cramped*2
Other:		Fuel=.02kl, Magazine=.03Kl, Cargo=.1Kl,
		EMLevel=Mod, ObjSize=Small

Sound silly?  The US built them in 1918.

Scott "2G" Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4294
From: Jo Jaquinta <jaymin@maths.tcd.ie>
Subject: STORY Imperial Advisor Part 1 of 6
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 92 20:31:32 BST


                      THE IMPERIAL ADVISOR

     Ynno burst into the Imperial Liason Office in the Department
of  Foreign  Affairs  of  the  Protectorate  of  Taxan.  "Sarion!
Sarion!", he cried, standing at an empty desk. "Oh, hello Clare."
She pointed beyond the partition and began to say something. 
     A  man  appeared from behind the partition. "Ynno!  Did  the
conference go well?"
     "The  conference?" He seemed distracted for a moment,  "Yes,
well  enough I suppose", he grabbed Sarion and pulled him  toward
the Coffee Dock. "I met the new Imperial Liason officer for Taxan
Amalgamate. She's was amazing! Really incredible! She really knew
her  stuff. She would whisper to the Amalgamate delegate or  make
notes  at all the right places. I saw the ambiguities  they  were
introducing  and  I could see that she could see  them  too."  He
paused for breath. "She's good."
     Sarion  poured  a  cup for himself and water  for  Ynno.  He
nodded enthusiastically, as Ynno continued. "And when she  spoke!
She  has  the  grace, charm and intonations of  a  Princess!  She
_sounds_ like a noble!"
     "Come on, Amalgam may be number one on Taxan but they aren't
that rich."
     "No, I'm not saying they are. She's just very well trained."
Clare wandered over, smiling with Ynno's good humour.
     "Keep going", she said.     Ynno continued enthusiastically,
"Impeccable dress sense, medium height with short brown hair. And
blue  eyes.  I'll never forget the eyes. They just kind  of  held
you."
     "I  see  you  gained  a lot  from  the  conference",  Sarion
commented drily.
     Ynno  shrugged  it easily away, "Ach, it all will be  in  my
report. The conference was no different than most. The  Imperials
trying  to  either undermine local business in  favour  of  mega-
corporations or tying to buy us out and amalgamate us with  them.
She carried the day. I think the government can rest assured that
our biggest economic interest is no one's fool. I expect  they'll
be needing less and less advice."
     "I  hope  this  friend of yours isn't putting  our  jobs  at
risk", said Clare in mock serious tones.
     "Not  that  they ever trusted us anyway", said  Sarion.  "We
have their competitors' interests at heart as well. But, you give
a rather glowing report of ..."
     "Bethula Myragail", Ynno rolled the name off.
     "...Ms. Myragail. You think she's good?", Sarion asked.
     "Oh, yes! Top notch", he beamed.
     "As good as you?"
     His  face suddenly changed and he looked downcast  into  his
cup. "You know she couldn't be as good as that."
     Sarion patted Ynno. "Sorry, I didn't mean to remind you... I
suppose  she couldn't be. She's just flesh and blood." He  downed
the last of his cup.
     "Cheer  up", said Clare. "There's nothing wrong  with  being
the best." 
     "Sarion",  said Ynno fixing his attention. "I think  I'm  in
love."  He looked up into Sarion's brown eyes with his own  black
ones. Tears almost flowed from his expression of utter confusion.
    Clare withdrew slowly from the two of them. Sarion sighed and
threw  the cup away. He put both both hands on  Ynno's  shoulders
and  just stared into his face, concerned. Ynno broke  his  stare
and looked aside. "I know what you're going to say." He wiped the
corner  of  his  eye. "I can't. I have no  feelings."  He  turned
fiercely  back.  "That isn't true. They don't know. They  say  my
program was written by a madman. Duplicated over and over. No one
knows what I think. I ..."
     "Stop", said Sarion. "No. I wouldn't say that."
     "You're much more than that", said Clare.
     Sarion  moved  his  hands to Ynno's face. "I  don't  care  a
millichit for your program. You're my friend. No one can tell  me
you can't feel." Clare nodded in agreement.
     Ynno  smiled weakly and swallowed deeply. Sarion let go  and
Clare passed him a handkerchief. "What do I do now?" he asked.
     "You  must  meet  her socially!"  said  Sarion  with  sudden
enthusiasm. He pulled him back to his desk, Clare following. "Now
let's see." He dipped his pen and began writing. "We could have a
government sponsored party to informally discuss the implications
of the last conference?"
     "Why would they come? From the way they listened to her I am
sure they trust her every opinion."
     "We could serve Methlanian wine", suggested Clare. "The reps
from  Alganam Associates can't resist these things any more  than
they can hold their liquor."
     "Could  be worth half a year's industrial  espionage",  said
Sarion and waggled his eyebrows at him.
     "Hmmm", acceded Ynno. "It could work."
     He thrust the stylus at him. "You've got to think  positive,
my boy. You go write your report. Stress that the Imperials might
be  misleading the companies and it would be recommended that  we
informally see what exactly they made of it."
     "Remember  four  years ago when you  first  started  working
here?" added Clare.
     "It comes back to me now. 'They may not know what  questions
they  should be asking of this bureau and so to get the most  for
the taxpayers money...'"
     "Precisely." They all grinned at each other.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4295
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 92 14:22:01 PDT
From: RALS System Test: 1 successful month  03-Jun-1992 1720 <schwartz_m@wmois.enet.dec.COM>
Subject: Using Maneuver Drives in Jumpspace


Submissions: traveller@metolius.wr.tek.com, or

>From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>

>Now, my question is this:  If you have a low 
>tech spacecraft without artificial gravity, what happens if you do try to
>accelerate during jump, in order to keep everything from floating around
>the cabin?  

Nothing should happen.  No gravitational effect. Firing rocket engines in  to
produce a gravitational effect requires that you accelerate in some direction.
Nothing to react against, no accelleration.  No accelleration, no gravitational
effect. All float.


>From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
>Subject: (4273) Using maneuver drives in jump (was RE: 4260 Warning...)

>Rob Dean asked about using maneuver drives during jump.

>There is also the point that Jump drives seem are affected by gravity.  (The
>100 Diameter limit)  They are not affected by the grav-plates of ships though.

I'd guess the effect is for gravitational sources outside the hull, ie, outside 
the lanthanum grid.  Similarly, using an anti-grav drive should cause any
problems as the drive's generator is inside the grid (unless it was left behind
:-).   

mitch schwartz


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4296
From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: MegaTraveller Journal #3 is available
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 92 17:59:11 PDT

My location game store (the Military Corner in Portland) just
called me today to announce that they'd just received the latest
copy of DGP's MegaTraveller Journal (issue #3) and did I want
them to hold one for me?  Of course I said "YES!!"

Just thought y'all would want to know, so you can rush out to
your nearest game store and scoop up a copy before they run out
(or berate the store for not having them in yet :^) ).

If the rumor mill is accurate, this is probably the last issue
of MT Journal that will be printed, as DGP is bending all their
efforts towards promoting their new RPG "AI".  A sad commentary
on the state of (Mega)Traveller support in general, if I do say
so myself. :^(

BTW, the latest Challenge is also out on the stands.

Later,

	- Mark C.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4297
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1992 12:29 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Hot Dogs Anyone?

More Fast Food
		Supersonic in this case...

Ryke ran his PRIS over the starport perimeiter, "My god!  Here it
comes again!  Man what a bad trip!  Here it comes again!  A great
big flying hotdog!"

Mr. Hotdog class G-Carrier

CraftID:  Hotdog Stand, TL 10, Cr 591,833
Hull:     (45/113) Disp=5, Config=3AF, Armor=1E,
          Unloaded=5.8, Loaded=51
Power:    (2/4) FuelCell=2MW Dur=30/90
Loco:     (3/6) StdGrav=200t, Accel=2.9G,
          NOE=140, Cruise=2089, Top=2785
Comm:     Radio=Reg*1
Sensors:  AW-Radar=Dist, Headlight*2
Off/Def:  Bad fast food,
          heavy in saturated fats and preservatives
Control:  Computer=0*2, Dynlink*9
Accom:    Crew=2(Operator=1, Steward=1) Seats=Roomy*2, BasicEnv
Other:    Fuel=6.77kl, Cargo=44.65Kl, EMLevel=Mod, ObjSize=Small

Scott "2G" Kellogg
Hot Dog!

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4298
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1992 12:30 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Faster than a speeding bullet train!

Hey folks!

I'm always shooting my mouth off...

When I lived in DC, I spent about a total of an hour and a half
commuting 7 miles each way every day.  Fortunately, there were
some good radio stations there.  I always envied how the big guns
had their reserved parking places.  But it took a while to get in
that calibre.  I was aiming pretty high...

Now, with this baby, I could have saved a whole lot of time.
Saved gasoline too...

CraftID:	Type 1812 Commuter 50Cm Shell, TL10, Cr 52,790
Hull:		(2/5) Disp=.185, Config=3AF, Armor=20E,
		Unloaded=.52, Loaded=1.52
Power:		(1/1) Battery=.1kwhr Dur=8Sec
Loco:		(2/4) High Explosive, Acceleration=20000G,
		Top=1085meters per sec, Range=120Km,
		Time of flight=1min 50 sec.
Comm:		Radio=Reciever (for those long commutes...)
Sensors:	Radar=Dist, CPR Guidance
Off/Def:	Watch where you park!
Control:	HandComputer*3
Accom:		Seat=VeryCramped*1, InertialCompensators
Other:  	Fuel=1kl(highexplosive), Cargo=.01Kl,
		EMLevel=Mod, ObjSize=Small

With the inertial compensators, the shell can provide a safe ride
for the single passenger.  The radar unit triggers maximum output
to the inertial compensators on landing, while the CPR guidance
will direct the shell to a designated parking place.

Cargo models are available for pizza delivery, where the grav
pizza robots are illegal.  The above can deliver up to an 18 inch
pizza with pinpoint accuracy.  Pizza delivery can be quite fast. 
The large range allows a single Domino's Pizza Parlor to cover
many times the service area they could before.  This is
especially helpful in rural areas.  Campers, sick of trail food,
may now order pizza by radio and have it delivered within
seconds.  No matter where you are, Domino's delivers!  Your pizza
will arrive in 3 minutes or it's free!  These cargo models are
used sometimes used by the military.  It's official military
designation is C.P.R.  (Combat Pizza Resupply)

Requires a 50cm high velocity gun:
200 tons, 200Kl, 3.2MCr, Range=120km, Signature=H

Scott "20000G" Kellogg
This is the cereal that shot from guns...

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4299
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 92 22:45:07 -0400
From: lothie@syrinx.umd.edu (Lothie)
Subject: Directions to Wildstar's House - Housewarming


Following are the directions to Wildstar's house for the housewarming
party Saturday. The party starts at 6pm. His site seems to be having
problems, so please mail any questions to THIS address, lothie@syrinx.
umd.edu. (I'm his wife, Lothie.)

*****

THE HOUSEWARMING WITH NO NAME
 
Directions
 
>From the Capitol Beltway, take Connecticut Avenue north.  Go
waaaay north and turn left on Aspen Hill Road.  Take the first
right, which is Frankfort.  Take the second right after the
second stop sign (they are not really close together).  This
will be Eagle Court.  14007 Eagle Court (i.e., our house) is on
the right just before the circly part; it's cream with rust
trim.
 
If you prefer not to take the Beltway, then from 95 going south 
take the exit for 198 West -- I think it's Exit 33, but I'm not 
sure. Stay on 198 past where it crosses 29; very soon after that 
point it narrows down to one lane either way. Be alert for a sign 
pointing out Good Hope Road, and take a left (only way you can 
go) on Good Hope. Good Hope becomes Bonifant when it crosses MD 
650, and then Bel Pre when it crosses 182. Whatever its name, 
just stay on it. When it crosses 97 (Georgia Avenue) it narrows 
down to one lane either way and the speed limit reduces. Stay on 
it until you hit a stop sign and then turn left (Arctic Ave). 
Stay on Arctic through a stop sign and then take your next left 
(Frankfort). Take your second left (Eagle Ct). 
 
Call me at (301) 871-5581 or 871-5104 if you have problems. The 
only problem I foresee is if you miss Good Hope Road in the 
non-Beltway directions; if this happens, then you'll come to MD 
650 (New Hampshire Avenue). Take a left on New Hampshire, and 
then, a small number of miles (3 or 4 maybe?) Take a right onto 
Bonifant (there's a light). Yeah, you'll go right past our old 
house; spit for old times' sake. 
 
Good luck!
 


*****

Lothie

PS The second set of directions were written for ppl definitely
coming from Baltimore. When I say "95 going south" I mean "95
north of the Beltway". 

L


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4300
From: jpb@umbio.med.miami.edu (Joe Block)
Subject: MagiCon
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 92 0:50:32 EDT


I realize its a little premature, but is anyone from the list going to be
attending MagiCon in Orlando this year?  Maybe we should organize a get 
together or something.

jpb
- --
Joe Block (jpb@umbio.med.miami.edu)
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
 deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
                                        Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4301
Date:     Fri, 5 Jun 92 9:12:50 EDT
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  [Steve_Higginbotham: ships of the black war, and others]

Chuch Gannon writes:

> No, Robert, I DIDN'T mean for you to forward my CIS address!  I didn't put
> it there!  I guess that's something that CIS must do when they forward e-
> mail to another system; making sure the recipient has a return address to
> send to.  

GACK!!  Sorry about that...I thought I had asked and your response to it
made no mention.  I did warn you that it was a subject in which there
was a lot of interest...

> Arrgh!  I'm already getting e-mail on Traveller stuff--and I just don't 
> have the time to respond.  Furthermore, I (like Fugate and others that were
> at DGP) am really out of the official Traveller loop.  I have a few more
> articles coming out, but after that, I just don't know!
> 
> I know you can't undo what was done, but I hope you might put in a request
> for me on TML NOT to send things to my CIS address; it's too cluttered and
> busy as it is.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Chuck

Rob Dean

OK folks...you see that I screwed things up.  Go easy on him, eh?

> /bye
> 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4302
From: goldman@orac.cray.COM (Matt Goldman)
Subject: Re: Hotel of Death
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 92 10:54:00 CDT

> Okay, I did it.  But I am still staring at my console, with a stack of
> printed materials in my hands, wondering, "what the heck is this Hotel
> of Death stuff.  I know, Matt is pissed about the xrn thing and this is
> his revenge." :-)

Hotel of Death is a role playing supplement/adventure.  The players
for one reason or another find themselves at a really nice hotel.
There is a shopping mall, conventions space (one of the really good
ways to get the players there is to have them attending a con) and
lots and lots of space to meet nps's and avoid being killed by them.

There are a number of plots going on at the hotel.  The players many
or may not become involved in them.

Spy vs. Spy:
	Someone has stolen the plans for the new Imperial
	Battlestation.  That someone has planted the information on
	the unsuspecting players.  Both sides are trying to get the
	plans back.
Horror:
	Someone is going around chopping people into small bite sized
	portions.  Convention goers are vanishing at an alarming
	rate.
Clones vs. Non-cloned:
	The work on the planet is done by cheap lowpriced clones.
	They are unhappy with their lot and are plotting to revolt.
	Blade Runners ala the movie are loose.  Some players might be
	mistaken as clones, or caught in the cross fire.
Revolution:
	The emperor is dead!  Long live the emperor!
Daleks:
	The hotel was really built by the daleks, or some other evil
	spacefaring race for unknown goals.
Zhodani vs. Imperial:
	Zhodani mindbenders are loose in the hotel.  What they want is
	unknown.
Aliens:
	Nesting, breeding, competing with "Jason" from the horror
	subplot for bodies.
Other:
	I pay attention to the players and add anything that they
	think might be going on.  The latest run of HoD has the
	players on the run from "Candi" and her Imperial Marines.  It
	seems that one of the players was a little forcefull in
	turning Candi down for a date.  Candi just happens to be one
	of the contenders for the Iridium Throne.

Some of the hooks used in the past to get players involved:
- -->	Players are attending the convention and are asked to host
	pannels when the guest of honor fails to show.
- -->	Players are running the convention.
- -->	Players are on an all expense paid vacation that they
	won/bought.
- -->	Players are working for one of the major governments.
- -->	Players are part of one of the plots.
- -->	The players do something interesting.
- -->	There is a yell for help and then a thud against their door.
	When the door is opened, there is a dead body attached to the
	door with an ax.


- -- 
Matthew Goldman            E-mail: goldman@ferris.cray.com
Fax: (612) 683-3099                  Work: (612) 683-3061
"We locked our keys in the flying saucer - do you have a 
 coathanger we could borrow?"

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4303
Date:     Fri, 5 Jun 92 13:57:26 EDT
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  MTJ#3

I got my copy of MTJ#3 today, and it looks pretty good.  I thought, though, 
that DGP had announced that they were getting out of the MT business, and I
was surprised to see references to a #4.  Any insider scoops?

Rob Dean

(If they're going to keep the license, let them publish the rest of the
Alien stuff...)


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4304
From: metlay@phyast.pitt.edu (metlay)
Subject: MTJ's Last Hurrah
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 92 14:22:29 EDT


If you get a chance, pick up a copy of the MegaTraveller Journal
Number 3, now at fine game stores everywhere. This issue has the usual
assortment of articles, including a piece on megacorporate dealings
during the Rebellion, an extended profile of the Vincennes system....


....and the infamous Traveller Light-Bulb Joke collection, by You Know Who.
(I'm gonna put it on my curriculum vitae, right next to my dissertation.)
|->

- --

Mike Metlay
metlay@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu
Atomic City, P.O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4305
Date: Fri, 05 Jun 92 15:00:26 EST
From: PCD <duggan@siam.org>
Subject: Precursors to a virus

Wildstar mentioned a 1990 usage of a virus as an universe-shattering type
of calamity. This is not the first idea of such a usage.

A superconductor virus caused the "fall of the cities" in Larry Niven's
ringworld books. 

*****SPOILER*******

It was the pupeteers that introduced the virus to the ringworld, because
they were paranoid about potential threats from the Ringworld.

*******************

By the way, that "bullet vehicle" is really nuts.  Shouldn't it also
"increase inertial compensators" at the BEGINING of its trip? Cute.

paul duggan


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4306
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 92 14:03:22 PDT
From: gwh@lurnix.COM (George W Herbert)
Subject: Steve Higginbotham


I'm not the first to ask, so I guess I'm not the only one...
anyone heard from Steve Higginbotham in a couple of 
weeks?

- -george william herbert
gwh@lurnix.com

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4307
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1992 18:02 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Mustang Sally

Mustang Sally!

CraftID:  '65 Mustang TL6, Cr 3430
Hull:     (7/17) Disp=.71, Config=6USL, Armor=1B,
          Unloaded=2.3, Loaded=3.4
Power:    (1/2) ImpIntComb=450kw, Dur=5hrs
Loco:     (1/2) MagWheels=4, P/W=131, Road=200, Offroad=60
          (No cargo:  Road=253, Offroad=76)
Comm:     Radio=Reciever
Sensors:  Headlight*2
Off/Def:  Guess you better slow your Mustang down!
Control:  EnhMech*1
Accom:    Crew=1(Driver=1) Seats=Cramp*2, None*2, BasicEnv
Other:    Fuel=.125kl, Cargo=1Kl, EMLevel=Mod, ObjSize=Sm

Bought you a brand new Mustang
a Nineteen Sixty Five...

Scott "2G" Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4308
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1992 18:02 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Bucket T

Cruisin' down the street in front of school
I wanna rev it up but I gotta be cool
Drivin' down the road I'll get my kicks
Poppin' the clutch and slippin' the sticks
	My Bucket T!

CraftID:  Bucket T, TL6, Cr 3282
Hull:     (7/17) Disp=.35, Config=6USL, Armor=1B,
          Unloaded=1.93, Loaded=2.155
Power:    (1/2) ImpIntComb=450kw, Dur=5hrs
Loco:     (1/1) MagWheels=4, P/W=209, Road=278, Offroad=84
          (No cargo:  Road=263, Offroad=79)
Comm:     Radio=Reciever
Sensors:  Headlight*2
Off/Def:  Noisy!
Control:  EnhMech*1
Accom:    Crew=1(Driver=1) Seats=Cramp*1, BasicEnv
Other:    Fuel=.125kl, Cargo=.1Kl, EMLevel=Mod, ObjSize=Sm

Cruisin' down the street she's first in her class
There's nothing on the freeway she don't pass.
All the girls wanna take a ride with me
but there's only one seat in my Bucket T!

Scott "2G" Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4309
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1992 18:03 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Good evening Mr. Bond...

Hi,

I was gonna take a crack at designing Speed Racer's Mach 5, but
I couldn't figure out how to get an internal combustion engine to
work under water, and then there are the buzz saws, and the automatic
jacks, the wings...

CraftID:  Astin Martin DB-5, TL7, Cr 22,289
Hull:     (9/23) Disp=1, Config=6USL, Armor=6C,
          Unloaded=4.6, Loaded=5.9
Power:    (2/3) ImpIntComb=1013kw Dur=5hrs
Loco:     (2/4) Wheels=4, P/W=171, Road=252, Offroad=76
Comm:     Radio=Reg, RadioJam=Reg
Sensors:  Headlight*2, Radio Direction Finder*1, IR*1, Lt Amp*1
Off:
		Pen		Max		Auto
	Rnds	Attn	Dmg	Range		Tgts	Sig	ROF
LMG*2	1000	3/3	3	Vlong(1)	2	H	60
Tire slashers

Def:      Smoke*2, Oil Slick*2, Revolving liscence plates
Control:  Electronic*2
Accom:    Crew=1(Driver=1) Seats=Adeq*2, BasicEnv
          PassengerEjectionSeat*1
Other:    Fuel=.28kl, Mag=.006, Cargo=1Kl,
          EMLevel=Mod, ObjSize=Sm

Well, it may have had Roger Moore in it, but 'The Spy Who Loved
Me' had a cool car.

CraftID:  Lotus, TL7, Cr 161,299
Hull:     (9/23) Disp=1, Config=Submersible, Armor=6C,
          Unloaded=6.647, Loaded=7.933, Dived=13.5
Power:    (2/3) ImpIntComb=1013kw Dur=5hrs
          (1/1) Battery=782Kwhr (for submerged operations)
          1hr @ 35 kph with full sensors
          1.2hrs @35 kph with passive sonar
          8hrs @ 13kph w/no sensors
          24hrs @ 5kph w/no sensors
          44hrs life support only
Loco:     (2/4) Wheels=4, P/W=122, Road=206, Offroad=62
          (1/1) Propeller, SurfacedTop=51kph, SurfaceCruise=38,
          SubmergedTop=35
Comm:     Radio=Reg, RadioJam=Reg
Sensors:  Headlight*2, Radio Direction Finder*1, IR*1, Lt Amp*1
          Active Sonar=Dist, Passive Sonar=Dist
Off:
		Pen		Max		Auto
	Rnds	Attn	Dmg	Range		Tgts	Sig	ROF
LMG*2	1000	3/3	3	Vlong(1)	2	H	60

Def:      Smoke*2, Oil Slick*2, Minelayer*1
Control:  Electronic*3
Accom:    Crew=1(Driver=1) Seats=Adeq*2, BasicEnv, BasicLS
Other:    Fuel=.28kl, Mag=.006, Cargo=1Kl,
          EMLevel=Mod, ObjSize=Sm

Scott "2G" Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4310
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1992 18:30 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: The 4.5th Frontier War (Chapter 2, Part 5)

               ON THE TRAIL
                    or
     Is there a doctor in the sector?
		Scott Kellogg
               - XXXIII -
          Welles E655632-3
     "The Vixen is still with us!" announced Miakr looking into
the navigation equipment.  "Two more jumps left to Zylath."
     "Any contacts?" asked Niedrsha.
     "Uuuh... well we've got some neutrino emissions, I think,
but..."
     "Here, Miakr, let me see."  Miakr stood and moved away for
Jietlshaiepr.  "Hmm. looks like about five emission sources:
three strong emitters, two small.  They're at extreme range.
Largest contact:  one thousand tons, seven point five gigawatt
reactor.  The other two large contacts are four hundred tons
each, nine gigawatts... must be warships.  The last two are only
two hundred tons, five hundred megawatts."
     "Viepchakl!  A nuclear explosion!"  The thousand tonner was
hit.  Picking up communications."
     The radio buzzed with static.
     "Interference from the blast." Jietlshaiepr stated tensely.
"It'll clear in a moment...  Identification coming up...  I make
the two four hundred tonners out as Imperial SDB's...  The one
thousand ton reads out as a type CD droyne cruiser.  The two
hundreds are type AD droyne free traders."
     Niedrsha hit the intercom, "Battle stations!  All hands to
battle stations!  Red alert!  This is no drill!"
     "Static's cleared."  said Jietlshaiepr forcefully.
     A small squeaky voice came over speaking droyne.  The small
creature whistled and cried shrilly.
     A male human voice cut in speaking english, "Attention alien
vessels, that was a warning, you will surrender now or be
destroyed."
     A female human voice announced.  "This is the Spindleman
from the League of Suns calling droyne vessels.  We are coming to
your assistance."
     The human male voice broke back in.  "That won't help you.
It will take them four hours to reach you.  Surrender now,
batwings, or be destroyed."
     The woman came back on line, "Spindleman to unidentified
SDB's, you are ordered to cease fire.
     Shtam came over the intercom, "It has to be the pirates!
But, what are they doing in system defence boats?  How did they
jump in system?"
     Niedrsha looked Jietlshaiepr in the eye, "You're in command,
Jiet.  We go in?"
     Jietlshaiepr slammed her fist into the console.  "Intercept
course, all ahead flank!  Miakr, program the Vixen to attack
those SDB's!"
     "I'm on it."  Miakr started feeding in attack orders and
target selections.
     "Attention, fighters, immediate launch.  Kfoks, you Tuerz
and Stuzzel intercept and attack pirate SDB's."
     Acceleration piled on the ship straining the inertial
compensators.  A thud ran through the ship as the Flamboyant's
gig slipped into space.
     "Flamboyant one away." announced Kfoks.
     Two more shocks jolted the ship.
     "Flamboyant two away." called Tuerz.
     "Flamboyant three away." grumbled Stuzzel.  "We can't take
on SDB's in these fighters!  It's crazy!  We'll never hit 'em!"
     "Cut the chatter Flamboyant three." called Kfoks annoyed,
"Throttle up to attack acceleration!"
     The three flew off in formation.  Seconds later the Vixen
confirmed that it had the correct targets locked and sped off
hot on the tails of the fighters.
     "The droyne are returning fire..." growled Jietlshaiepr.  "I
read one SDB has been hit twice...  Blast their armor!  Didn't do
any thing I can read...  Well, the Spindleman won't be much good,
I read her out as a standard type S Scout... She's got some guts
taking on two ships four times her size."
     "This is Flamboyant one, we will be in range in three
minutes."
     Jietlshaiepr read off "The SDB's are firing again...
Viepchakl!  I hope the Droyne're still there in three minutes...
The missiles were shot out of the sky but one laser hit on the
cruiser...  I read outgassing...  Possible loss of fuel,   The
droyne ships can't seem to lock onto the SDB's well enough...
All their shots are missing...  The SDB's too maneuverable...  We
have to get in there fast...  Time to range mark?"
     "Ten minutes, thirty five seconds." answered Niedrsha.
     Jietlshaiepr turned to the intercom, "Gunners stay sharp,
range in ten minutes."
     She jerked to attention.  "Two more contacts bearing in...
One has a one point five gigawatt reactor...  One hundred tons...
The other... five hundred megawatts... two hundred tons...  Must
be a freighter...  The one hundred tonner will intercept droyne
in two minutes.  The two hundred tonner... in twenty seven...  I
read the one hundred tonner out as a tech nine SDB... the two
hundred tonner is... a Fanzheinz class free trader..."
     Jietlshaiepr turned to the communications station, "Lasercom
transmit... Spindleman come in, this is the gunned escort
Flamboyant, just arrived in system... come in... we are offering
assistance to distressed droyne convoy... request target
verification."
     "Spindleman to Flamboyant.  Assistance accepted.  What
information do you require?"
     "Target identification, I have multiple contacts:  Two
droyne traders, one droyne cruiser, two four hundred ton SDB's, a
one hundred ton SDB, and a Fanzheinz class free trader.  Request
identification of hostiles."
     "Flamboyant hold... have no knowledge of any SDB's in your
area, must be considered hostile... Fanzheinz unknown... will
attempt communication for verification... proceed with caution.
Good luck.  Out."
     "Flamboyant to Flamboyant flight leader... Kfoks, alter
course to... one five dash zero niner... intercept one hundred
ton SDB bearing in on convoy... identified as hostile...  Over."
     "Flight leader to Flamboyant... Acknowledged...  Target in
sight.... Flight leader to two and three, arm weapon systems.
On my mark, open fire.  Load high explosive missiles only.  This
isn't worth a nuke."
     The speeding SDB bore in on the convoy not noticing its
small pursuers neutrino traces.  Still out of range of the droyne
guns, she didn't bother to evade but bore in on an arrow straight
course:  nice and easy to track and lock on.
     "Flamboyant flight:  fire!"
     Two missiles streaked away from the Vipers.  The gig's laser
lanced out unseen in the vacuum.  The SDB shook under the shock
of its turret ionizing under a storm of X-ray photons.  One
missile zeroed in closing the gap homing on the startled SDB.  A
brief flash lit the SDB against the stars.  Hydrogen burst into
the vacuum obscuring her outlines for a moment.  She tumbled a
moment, quickly stabilized, but the engines fired erratically and
quit.  Still moving under the momentum of the attitude jets, it
began to tumble again slowly.
     Jietlshaiepr read the sensors "It's reactor is fading...
looks like you blasted the fuel tanks.  Good shooting."
     Kfoks voice beamed over the radio, "Piece of mutton,
Flamboyant.  She didn't even evade."
     "That missile hit was mine of course." sighed Tuerz, "Stupid
didn't get a proper lock on a non-evading target."
     "How are you so sure you hit?" growled Stuzzel, "We fired at
the same time."
     "I know it was mine because it hit."
     "Shut up!" barked Kfoks, "Flamboyant, what's the I.D. on the
Fanzheinz?"
     "Spindleman to Flamboyant, Fanzheinz refuses to answer
challenge.  Must be considered as hostile."
     "We're on it." answered Kfoks.  "Flamboyant flight bear two
seven dash two five."
     Jietlshaiepr studied the sensors:  "One droyne trader's
engines are out... the other's fuel is hit...  The cruiser's
engines are damaged but she's still maneuvering...  One SDB lost
some fuel too...  The Vixen should open fire right about now..."
     The Vixen swooped into battle range at six G's maneuvering
wildly.  Missiles belched from her bay and turrets streaming out
like a cloud of bats swarming from a cave.  The SDB's lasers
leapt out to stem the onslaught, but the defenses were swamped.
The turrets of one vaporized instantly as they were lost in a
flare of nuclear fire.  The missile racks of the second were
shaken and bent by the introduction of high explosive.
     The droyne cruiser's lasers swept out seeking the enemy.
Missiles flew past as the SDB's evaded, but the lasers struck
home leaving the first SDB's missile racks all but smashed.
     The pirates returned fire at the new arrived menace.  Lasers
and missiles zeroed in on the twisting Vixen.  Robots however do
not appreciate near misses or close calls.  The engines of
destruction swept on impotently.
     Another salvo of missiles blazed forth at the pirate SDB's.
The ships turned to flee as they streamed in like sharks to a
kill.  The monstrous bulk of the missiles flew on into the
vacuum, save the best for last.  The Vixen's nukes slammed into
the fleeing pirate.  Her turrets became slag as they were
irradiated, buckling armor plates around them.
     Simultaneously the Fanzheinz class free trader turned and
ran on the same heading.
     Kfoks voice came over the communicator, "Flamboyant, this is
Flamboyant flight.  Target vessel now running.  Request permission
to pursue."
     "Negative, flight leader." answered Jietlshaiepr.  "They are
on a rendezvous course with enemy SDB's.  Not even the Vixen can
do much against their armor.  Get back here, the droyne may
require assistance."
     "The pirates are still firing at the droyne convoy."  She
continued, "Why?  Don't they know they've lost them?  They've
disabled the second trader's engines and I can't tell what they
did to the cruiser."
     The Vixen flew on in hot pursuit loosing missiles as she
ran.  The missiles crashed through the pirate's armor silencing
the last of their guns.
     "Miakr, call back the Vixen, their on the run and she can't
seem to disable them."
     "Right, here she comes.  Good girl!  She chased 'em off."
     Jietlshaiepr punched the radio, "Droyne convoy, this is
Flamboyant... Repeat, Droyne convoy this is Flamboyant, do you
require assistance?... Droyne convoy come..."
     A tiny voice broke through a wave of static, "This cruiser
Chekbas droyne is.  All ships droyne damaged been have.  Drone
medic of Trader Kivas killed been has.  Wounded aboard are.
Medic aboard have you?"
     "Viepchakl," she thought, "how much do I really know about
droyne anatomy?"
     "Affirmative, we have a doctor aboard.  I may require
assistance with droyne physiology.  Do you require assistance
with damage control?"
     "Cruiser Chekbas:  maneuver drive damaged, two laser
batteries destroyed.  Trader Kivas:  computer destroyed, maneuver
drive damaged.  Trader Shoolist:  hold destroyed, maneuver drive
damage repair complete.  Streamlining trader's both destroyed."
     "Acknowledged.  We will aide the Kivas.  Estimate rendezvous
and docking in... two minutes.  Be prepa..."
     "Oh, Shiviepchakl..."
     The neutrino detector suddenly started going mad.  Twelve
readings of nine gigawatts, one reading of six hundred.
     Densiometer crosscheck...  Confirmed...  Targets closing...
Twelve four hundred ton SDB's...  One forty thousand ton ship of
the line....
~~~~~~~
Here we leave the crew of the Flamboyant...

Next time, we take up the trail of Dr. Malenkoviepr.  We get a little
heavily into some *serious* weirdness in chapter 3 entitled:
"You know something's happening,
 but you don't know what it is...
	Do you, Mr. Jones?"

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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4311  06-Jun-92 Hans Rancke-Madse Letter from Chuck Gannon << I've had an excha

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4311
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Letter from Chuck Gannon
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 92 5:04:00 MET DST

I've had an exchange of letters with Chuck Gannon on the subject of
Hard Times and the effects thereoff. He allowed me to post them here
on the TML. I think you will find them interesting. Here's the first:

'>>' and '' is Chuck; '>' is me.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------

[Preliminary greetings]

>>While all this is going on, the big whigs on any planet have
>>one thing upper-most in their mind: to hang on to as much tech
>>level as they can. TL is
>>the primary chip in the interstellar poker game of survival,
>>dominance,
>>ability to enforce one's sovreign right to govern oneself (or
>>others!).

>You don't feel that weapons is equally important to the ability
>to enforce one's sovreign right to govern oneself?

and later:

>But the way things are presented in Hard Times these ships ARE
>essential to their survival. The polities are presented as
>desperate last-gasp attempts to keep things going, doomed to
>fail in a few short years, mainly because pirates makes merchant
>traffic too hazardous. Oh, I agree that worlds wouldn't be able
>to maintain fleets of pre-war proportions, but a world like Prom
>ise could build (not maintain, _build_, from scratch) a force of
>700 Termagants, 25 200 T jump shuttles and 10 Vigilantes in one
>year, using 1% of the pre-war _peacetime_ budget.

I most certainly do agree that weapons are important--and I
wholeheartedly agree with your point (made in other writings)
that the equivalent of shore defense batteries would be a major
investment and offer an impervious defense against pirates.  So
too would a local defense fleet.  But note that I say `local.'
As we know from the design rules, equal tons of boat carries a
lot more whallop than equal tons of jump-integral ship.  With the
politics of isolationism firmly in hand, it is a lot more easy to
build the equivalent of SDBs than convoy escorts.
The problem with building convoy escorts?  I see several.  One of
the key problems with building ANYTHING at this time in Imperial
history is that the constructing world's actual TL is not
stable--and no one knows exactly HOW FAR IT WILL FALL until the
end of Hard Times.  I draw the following very important quote
from HT, pg 19, para 3:

"The UWP alterations are usually the end result of months or even
years of slow change."

In practical terms, this means that you the ref know WELL BEFORE
THE ACTUAL INHABITANTS exactly how far a planet's TL is going to
fall.  You the ref can build accordingly, having that
foreknowledge.  However, THEY cannot.  A world that will (unknown
to its leaders) bottom out at TL A has no way of being sure that
they won't drop to TL 8 by 1129-20--in which case every starship
they've built becomes an unmaintainable white elephant.  The TL
shift is integrated into a single, chronologically hard-edged
step in order to make the game mechanics of its application user-
friendly.  However, that AIN'T how things happen--and the im-
plications of that discrepancy have a lot of impact on technol-
ogy, costs, and construction strategies.

Personally, I envision a situation where until 1129, the nature
of TL in most of these post-war societies hangs in the balance.
Not just due to trade unpredictability and war damage, but policy
choices.  For instance, in this country right now, the defense
industry is losing jobs right and left.  As a scriptwriter for
science documentaries, I have heard of countless research
programs--and production programs--being terminated, rolled back,
tossed aside.  In short, I am watching as policy changes affect
available TL and associated support infrastructure.  In HT, I
think the situation would be more severe--by several orders of
magnitude.  I govern planet X which used to have a TL of F, now
falling.  How many people do I employ in TL-C industries, hoping
to use that activity as a commercial impetus to shore up my over-
all TL?  But what if I'm wrong?  What if that still won't
maintain a TL of C?  Then I'll fall even further than I would
have otherwise, because I tried to build my technological dike
too far out into the oncoming tides of decline.  So, knowing
this, I have to think about also subsidying TL 10 industries, and
employing people there.  But now I've created rival interest
groups; the TL 12 industries and the TL 10 industries.  THe lat-
ter will want a return to the older, more basic technologies--
since that's how their bread is being buttered.  The TL 12 folks
will want to try to hold the line where they are, try to show
that the TL 10 group is unnecessarily recidivistic.

So maybe you should only go with one group?  Maybe, but in that
event, most worlds will feel compelled to pursue the path sug-
gested by the axiom `better safe than sorry' and will go with the
TL 10 option (or less).  The price of guessing too high is the
same as counting unhatched eggs; without enough chickens, you
will starve.  If all the eggs were placed in the TL 12 basket and
it doesn't work out, where will the slide finally stop?  The pos-
sibility for this mismanagement of TL downshift is reflected in
the randomizing element (die roll) of UWP change, along with the
DM for government type (there's the fast, and then there's the
dead).

The bottom line is that until 1129, I see HT meaning that
planets--great and small alike--are in a state of immense flux.
SHip building times (and capacities) are further complicated by
the fact that shipyards do not usually produce all their own
parts, nor do they acquire all their needed raw materials local-
ly.  In the post HT era, this may change, due to the lessons
learned in HT.  But case in point: a few years ago, a small com-
pany that was a subcontractor to a major US defense leviathan
went under.  It manufactured one small, humble component for a
very well known--and well respected--US air superiority fighter.
Production of the fighters continued while DC dawdled over what
to do.  End result; the part supply ran out and the production of
the jet  came to a screeching halt until a makeshift replacement
company was formed up.
Now, let's go one step further; let's say that this company
wasn't US, but foreign.  Then you get the following scenario: A
good friend of mine (a published MT author, btw) has a Yugo.
Nice car, but no parts.  And his trade-in option for another Yugo
just went south with Sarajevo.

Let's apply these anecdotes to ship construction.  Adequate
transshipment (to say nothing of production) of essential com-
ponents has been on the decline since 1118.  Since 1120, it has
become quite haphazard, but now, by 1125, it has effectively
dried up.  Suddenly, the mad dash is on to try to find a way to
get more parts or make them.  But while this is happening, the
forecasters in the ministry of technology are shaking their heads
and saying, `We can't even guarantee you that we'll have the
technology necessary to MAKE such parts six months from now.'
Meaning that any sensible leader is going to look long and hard
at the recommendations to create an industry capable of making
such parts.  Such a factory may be useless before it is completed
and ready to start production.

Some foresightful governments have taken it upon themselves AL-
READY (by 1125) to retool for self-sufficiency, but only LARGE
governments can undertake this effectively--and the problem with
generating self-sufficiency BEFORE the end of the war (including
the Black War Years) is that it actually makes you a bigger
target.  Consider; a planet that is self-sufficient is producing
just about everything an aggressor wants--needs--to prosecute a
war.   Such a planet represents a major logistical asset--
particularly if it is in the Outlands and on the anticipated
route of advance into enemy territory.  So until the big boys
stop playing with their big toys, planets must think twice before
becoming TOO efficient.  Is this disgusting, a tragic waste of
opportunity (and ultimately, life)?  You betcha.  Is it avoidable;
probably not. Would-be conquerors and military
hierarchs traditionally lose sight of human values the deeper
they go into their `victory at any cost' mode.  Consider the cry
of some of this country's oddball reactionary conservatives dur-
ing the early Sixties: better Dead than Red.  The sentiment gets
its monstrous aspect not from the implied political resolve of
the speaker, but from the implied alternative; global nuclear war
to support their desire.  Proof positive of the capacity of indi-
viduals to lose sight of how their opinions/objectives become
more than personal choices, but in fact, come to dominate a much
wider social sphere (or in this case, a whole BIOsphere!).

I am not saying all this to suggest that your assessments are
wrong or ill-considered, Hans.  Quite the contrary; I think they
are RIGHT.  I simply feel that the timing is a little off.  Men
on a sinking ship rarely spend time considering how they want to
upgrade the cannon; they think of nothing other than saving the
ship.  Rudders must be fixed, breaches sealed, water bailed, be-
fore they will even tolerate suggestions that there are other
considerations.  The construction of a new, independent fleet is,
alas, an `other consideration.'  Add to this the fact that a siz-
able chunk of the body politic is not likely to accept that the
Imperium HAS gone away for good.  These people would see the con-
struction of a home fleet as (at best) a betrayal of faith in the
Imperium--at worst, an act of treason (to whomever they consider
the rightful Emperor).

I absolutely agree with your implication that a major use of
jump-capable security craft would be as convoy escorts.  And in-
deed, such flotillas would rarely be at risk from pirates of even
the largest caliber.  However, what convoys get that type of pro-
tection?  My answer is this; only those that are carrying ab-
solute essentials, which I would define as food (if needed) or
parts relevant to the maintenace of tech level and defense as-
sets.  Everything else (ie; commerce in general) must simply
wait.  And while it waits, it withers and dies.  Economies turn
inward.  The demand for external trade diminishes.  The retooling
for self-sufficiency reduces the need for going to other stellar
systems.  If the basic strategy of survival-through-self works,
the need for escorted convoys drops off.

Generally, you can't have it both ways, particularly if there are
limited resources, and much of that resource base (TL) is unsure:
you must either go for self-sufficiency or maintenance of inter-
stellar ties.  The latter is too big a job at first; even the
biggest world must put its own house in order prior to ex-
pansionist thought (and providing a protective envelope for trade
and resource pooling is expansionist, in these terms).

But now on to an area of questionable self-sufficiency; food.

>Surely a world like Promise _must_ have been mostly selfsuffi
>cient. Try calcu-lating the merchant fleet you would've needed
>to import food for just 10% of the population of Promise. I once
>worked out that a jump-1 cargo carrier could have approx. 50%
>cargo space. A ship can make 12 round trips per year. Thus each
>ton of cargo ship can import 6 tons of food per ton of ship. Fig-
>ured at 1 kg of food concentrate per day an individual needs
>(roughly) 1/3 ton of food per year. That means each ton of ship
>can support 18 individuals (call it 20). To import food for 500
>million people you need a cargo fleet of 25 million tons. Now try
>basing your economy on importing, say, most of your electronics
>parts and add the ships you need for that. You wind up with a
>quite litterally astronomic number of ships. Medium sized worlds
>could get away with that kind of economy, because they can use
>their neighbouring high-pop world's trade fleet, but high-
>population worlds _cannot_ base their economy on imports.
>
>And of course, accepting your premise, you get a much larger
>catastrophe. If a high-population world really did base their
>economy on importing their food, then a cessation of interstellar
>trade wouldn't just reduce their technology a few levels. It
>would precipitate a civil war that would severely reduce the pop-
>ulation and propably balkanize the planet (Now, that would bea
>way to get rid of those pesky high-pop worlds). A world like
>Promise (startype M1 V = total artificial environment) might
>even be totally depopulated.

Hmm... interesting.  My math suggests a few differences.  First
of all, I propose using the `modular' design approach put forward
in One Small Step (pg 83 HT, or a past issue of Challenge).  Make
the central hull the equivalent of a jump tender.  The other 95 %
are no-frills cargo hulls; just big grain silos in space.  If you
make the central tender 500 KT to 1 MT, you'll find that one ship
can haul A LOT of food.  Furthermore, my estimate re: food is
that the whole foodstuff is not economical to transport; only the
necessary sustenance components (sugars, proteins, vitamins, some
starches).  Fully dehydrated and compressed, I think you can get
a person day into about .25 liters..  Mating this with `bulk fil-
lers' (from algae tanks on the high-pop world) at the destination
would give you your food.

However, I fully agree with you that COMPLETE food importation is
still beyond the A-population worlds (and is economically un-
feasible for the pop-9's UNLESS they own and operate their own
food-transport vessels...).  If it seems like I was suggesting
this, I'm sorry-- I do not mean to do so.  However, I do maintain
that complete self-sufficiency is also unlikely.  First of all,
assuming that only 2 % of a population can afford something other
than the basic `protein cake' of fortified, baked algae paste
(which probably tastes worse than cardboard), this still means
hunreds of millions of people.  A big market, where a `luxury'
food item is wheat, meat, fruit; anything other than those bland,
frisbee-like cakes of Soylent Green fame.

Let's assume that 2-5 % of each world do rely on these off-world
`delicacies.'  I would also assume that there is actually a fur-
ther deficit of food, simply because although you can grow LOTs
of algae cheaply, the necessary nutrients can only come from one
of four sources;

1) off-world supplies
2) chemical synthesis from basic organic molecules
3) reprocessed wastes
4) reprocessed, um... `neighbors'

Option 4 IS Soylent Green and is probably still a social taboo
violation (I HOPE so!).  #3 will hardly be popular, and watch out
for a breakdown in qc!  Fatal food poisonings a plenty!  (And
processed wastes is probably the only biomass of sufficient
volume on a hi-pop world to be the growing culture for the basic-
mass additive, the algae.  Makes those little grey cakes more ap-
pealing than ever!)

#2 is a nice idea, but gives you the same problem as number one;
if the environment does not come ready-equipped with the chemi-
cal/catalyst raw stocks, you have to import.

So #1 probably still gets used, particularly in the sense of
transshipment of protein, sugar, and vitamin additives to the al-
gae paste.  However, with FULL reduction to the basic compounds,
(i.e.; toss the starches) you can get a person-day of nourishment
into as little as .1 liters.

One last comment; I do NOT think that all this is a logical prog-
nostication of interstellar development (based on the assumptions
of the jump drive as defined).  As you will note in my last mes-
sage on TML, I think the UWP generation process creates some un-
tenable results (or at least creates some results in unrealistic
quantity; the nature of hi-pop worlds as being possible on in-
hospitable planets is, in my opinion, the worst of this).  How-
ever, Traveller exists as is.  We can either choose to throw away
the high-pop worlds (and thereby change fundamental drivers
within the game universe) or try to find explanations.

Your explanation--that the worlds are all essentially self-
sufficient--is a perfectly good variant.  However, I feel it begs
one question; HOW did those worlds with inhospitable atmospheres
and hi-populations really evolve?  Environment costs big bucks--
and the gruesome reality is that a planet without food, air,
shelter (other than rock which must be bored out), or water is
going to compel leaders to discover an affordable alternative;
mandatory sterilization.  Unless the Imperium is dominated by a
wild-eyed fertility cult, all those teeming bodies would not have
been born if they do not represent some kind of valuable asset.
Given the autocratic governmental tendencies of such hi-pop
societies, you can bet that harsh population control measures--
whatever they might be--would have been proposed and enforced.
And probably, eventually willingly espoused by the inhabitants.
Fewer people in a finite environment almost always means a higher
quality of life for those within it--until you fall beneath the
thresh-hold population required for techno-social maintenance at
the established level.
My point is this; if those populations are not in fact of benefit
to the society, why have they not been reduced to acceptable size
long ago?  Most global overpopulation today is the result of a
changing reality outstripping social adjustment.  Most overpopu-
lated regions on Earth are so because infant mortality plummeted
in the 20th Century and because the individuals in those
`rescued' societies are still having large families--a necessity
up until the infant mortality rate took its plunge.  Now, how-
ever, the institution of the large family is a time-honored tra-
dition; it was socially and economically wise for so long that it
has achieved a position that exceeds its utilitarian value.  It
now is a component that defines the culture.  However, in several
generations, that will probably change (barring the intervention
of reactionary religion); persistant misery has a way of upset-
ting traditions.
Taking this to our Imperial model, we find no evidence of per-
vasive religious fanaticism, nor any evidence that those areas
with theocratic rulers are disposed toward maximum fertility, no
matter the costs.  So it would seem that there must be a reason
why populations would remain high, since large-family traditions
are unlikely to endure the stresses of these environments, and
there seems to be no religious issue to maintain high levels of
procreation.

So, I went to the other option: that those masses were, in some
way, economically desirable.  Why?  Cheap labor, even as sources
of huge (and cheap) merc organizations that put money in the lo-
cal tillers (a sort of industrialized version of the Dorsai no-
tion).  My solution begs a different question; what about automa-
tion and the reduction of labor?  WHY use all these bodies in-
stead of machines?  GOOD question--to which I can only answer,
humans are only more expensive in the LONG term.  Machine
alternatives have a high start up cost; savings follow.  And bes-
ides, any move toward automation generally is received with
worker suspicion, even worker violence.  I posit that many of the
high-pop worlds are slowly trimming their numbers back as they
slowly add more automation to their industrial mix.  (And
certainly, the Imperium's on-off discomfort with robots in gener-
al will tend to help lend a sense of thematic unity to this
alternative explanation.)

However, I completely concur with your assertion that Hard Times
WILL introduce a food shortage; no doubt about it.  Bulk material
will probably not be lacking (the algae should be plentiful), but
the necessary nutrients will.  I think we'd see malnutrition more
than classical starvation, with governments giving less `essen-
tial' social members algae cakes with fewer nutritive additives.
In areas where any of the algae growing media have been damaged
by the war or loss of environment, or power failure (or any of
the other myriad problems that attend violent conflict), we can
also anticipate outright starvation.  Most of these assumptions
are built into HT's UWP change format.

However, let me reemphasize; I feel the hi-pop world structure as
defined by Trav/MT is flawed from word go.  I do not believe
there is a `right' explanation for the hi-pop world phenomenon,
because the situation has resulted from a game-mechanic.  That
game-mechanic is the dark side of one of Traveller's best fea-
tures; the original game's user-friendly, simple system for world
generation.  I think this leaves us with two choices; we either
uproot the whole structure and start afresh with our own, more
empirically satisfying vision OR we find a way to explain what is
really a statistical aberration that was never intended.

Yes; I am saying that the king is not wearing clothes.  I do not
believe in defending errors in game logic (as many game companies
and designers feel it necessary to do).  However, I think we have
to remember that if Traveller hadn't been built (in large part)
upon easy to use, consistent paradigms, it might never have be-
come popular and we might never have heard of it.  This doesn't
make statistical wrongs right, but I think it does suggest that
no one game (or rule or supplement) can be all things to all
people, particularly to those of us who like really HARD facts in
our hard sf.

>But what they need is defined by how big the pirate menace is
>(I'm assuming that the nearest rival polity is too far away to
>be a factor yet). Thus the only way pirates could be a sig-
>nificant threat would be if they outnumbered the world's poten-
>tial fleet.
>And IMO Cymon Milligan and Indro the Lightless dosen't come
>close.

>Note the 'significant'. I'm perfectly sure that pirates would
>flourish for a time in the marginal systems. But they won't come
>close to any high-pop world if they know what's good for them.
>Defense has always been a paramount concern of any society. (Any
>threatened society, of course), and I just can't see any world
>putting a higher priority on increasing (or even maintaining) the
>quality of life than on the means to go to hell in their own way.
>If people thought that way England would be a German province
>today.

I went back over the relevant parts of HT and failed to find any
mention that Indro (et al) ever intended to topple Khavle itself;
only to destabilize and disrupt the Accordment.  This would be
done by preying on all commercial traffic that was not `convoyed'
with security vessels.

On another, possibly important note, I must say that the ap-
pearance of my name as one of A:V's designers is, umm...somewhat
misleading.  Very little --VERY LITTLE--of what I wrote got into
A:V.  A:V is actually a vastly cut-down version of another
module.  For instance, Milligan et al is not my creation; the
first I ever heard of the name was on TML.  I have since received
my copies of A:V.  Furthermore, many important aspects of the
Promise Unity (originally called simply, The Promisary) have been
altered.
When I originally proposed HT to Marc, I included a proposed
time-line (that has since been supplanted by the new revision).
I had originally proposed that the Vikings would, by 1130, be
evolving into more of a Varangian guard--much as you suggest
would happen when various worlds might offer them support and
refit in exchange for protection.  The Vikings are those raiders
with enough organization, cohesiveness, and honor to actually be
reliable parties to such a contract.  The rippers and corsairs
are intrinsically too undependable; the few polities that would
contract with them would regret it.  This is why I saw the rip-
pers as all but vanished by 1130, the standard pirates (corsairs)
fading back to pre-war numbers, and the Vikings as finding a
place in the new, evolving political order.

One last comment; re: raiders arriving on hi-pop worlds.  I agree
that no smart one would ever go there directly.   But the
criminal mind is opportunistic and given to wish-fulfillment fan-
tasies.  I envisioned Indro's thought as something like this;

`IF I can disrupt routine trade so much that only Khavle's essen-
tials are being convoyed, perhaps they will be forced to cut
loose the worlds on the rimward extent of the Main as too ex-
pensive to make runs to.  Or, perhaps those worlds will break
away and I can gather tribute from them.
Either way, IF that occurs, then perhaps deeper rifts will arise
within Khavle's government itself.  Some parties are likely to
feel morally obligated to object to the abandonment of the lesser
planets, others will harden in their self-interest.  And where
there is division, there exists the opportunity to feed the
flames of dissent.  Where there is enough dissent, there can be
civil strife.  And where there is civil strife, there can be
chaos.  And if the chaos grows large enough, who knows?  Perhaps
I can make alliance with one of the factions, raid their rivals.
You never know . . . '

(A note: none of the lesser worlds discussed are MEMBERS of the
KA, but rather part of the Main that provides the KA with a
larger economic arena and routine contact with more distant trad-
ing and security partners [Margaret, for instance].  If the
worlds along this path are abandoned by the KA entirely, then
raided, eventually eroded to the point where they are isolation-
alistically hostile to any interstellar transits through their
system [and offer an unbroken string of X-class port facilities],
then Indro has some reason to hope for larger success.  He would
hope that the KA would begin to suffer decreased external con-
tact, decreased trade in necessary high-tech items from the
nearest Safe, and a further depressed economy.  Indro would then
look for this weakening to result in political fracturing, which
he could capitalize on.)

This is of course a prime example of overblown ambition and wish-
fulfillment fantasy.  But consider the personality profiles of
the Indro and the other piratical individuals presented; they are
voracious and insatiable.  And some such individuals throughout
history (Atilla comes to mind) have been able to indulge those
fantasies with no grander a start than Indro has had.
Granted, Atilla was part of a people that he was able to rally to
him; Indro exists outside such a structure.  However, Indro
doesn't necessarily want to see or believe that--AND--if he's
right, if he can receive a letter of marque from one side of a
factional war on Khavle itself, perhaps he CAN manipulate events
to his favor and rise to precedence.  The last two centuries of
the Roman Empire offer some good examples of this kind of social
climbing over the bodies of the slain.


>Well, evidently my main gripe with Hard Times is not with you,
>but with GDW. I don't believe in the size of your pirate bands,
>but that is after all a minor disagreement  -  a question of
>scale rather than kind  -  but I totally disagree in the view
>that these polities will dry up and blow away in a few years. IMO
>the aftermath (after a few years of recovery) will see a large
>number of these mini-states involved in endless sceemings and
>small wars, with the various big governments all trying to move
>in and even more trying to prevent their rivals from moving in.
>Actually a rather exiting background.

and later:

>Incidentally, have you (or GDW) reflected that if you _don't_
>allow these polities to become reasonably strong, then the Safes
>will, after a few years of recovery, be able to roll over the
>Frontiers, Outlands and Wilds until they meet each other? Or
>perhaps that's what GDW want?


Once again, this reflects the difference between what I had in
mind with HT, and where it seems like things will be left, given
Traveller's upcoming jump forward into time.  First of all, your
opinion regarding the aftermath of HT--a balkanized area largely
comprised of polities that would then be involved in byzantine
dealings with competitive factions--is exactly what I had in
mind.  By 1130, Hard Times was to be winding down--meaning that
any polity which lasted through to this time had a good chance of
surviving.  The more years of indicated duration, the more stable
and sure its survival (note that this made Khavle a `borderline'
case for survival).
However, I couldn't reveal this in HT, not without giving away
some of the changes I foresaw coming in the next stage (1130 and
after).  I felt that enough worlds and space would still be un-
claimed to present large reaches of Outland between the estab-
lished polities and factions.  I intended this mix of factors to
create an environment with elements of frontier, international
intrique, and opportunities for reclamation of `lost' societies
and planets.  I foresaw the Vikings as mercenaries helping to
resist the factions.  I saw the factions sending out exploration
and salvage teams, competing for the unclaimed and/or abandoned
worlds during a re-expansion period.  Finally, all these forces
would have to band together against a common foe, and then more
synthesis, and then...

Sound like the ever-turbulent stewpot of the Marches from the
`old days' of Traveller?  I guarantee you; any similarities you
see are wholly intentional.  Marc Miller came up with the best
formula for maintaining a perpetually interesting SF RPG environ-
ment, and my attitude is/was; if it works, don't fix it.  The
Rebellion stultified the play environment.  HT --and what I had
hoped might follow--was to free it up and return it to the
`golden era' feeling of Traveller.  This may be what GDW will try
to accomplish with their new revision; I do not know.  I am not
in that decision-making loop.

> there's one big problem with any starspanning RPG campaign:
>That the need for background information far outstrips the ca-
>pacity of all but the most prolific Referee. That's why support
>of a game like Traveller is so important (And that's why I feel
>so let down by GDW's decision to dump most of what they've al-
>ready done and move two generations into the future). But that
>also means that you have to keep your own campaign fairly close
>to the official version. That's not a question of blind
>obedience, it's nessescary to be able to use what is published.

I agree completely, since my foray into writing for games long
post-dates my involvement as player, but primarily, ref.
However, unlike a series of books authored by the same person,
games are almost inevitably patchwork quilts, where many hands
have been at work.  Changes in vision mean changes in direction,
and often, inconsistencies.  At the very least, a new steersman
may have to cut a few `internal consistency' corners to get the
ship on the new, desired heading.  At the same time, it is gener-
ally sacrilege to hold up a hand and say `Oops! We did that last
thing wrong, so we're rewriting things.  Now everything will fit
correctly--so just ignore the last three modules.  Hope you don't
mind that we're tearing up a lot of what came before.'
To some degree, I think this is what GDW may try to do with their
new revision.  I think it is equally motivated by a marketing im-
perative to appeal to a broader audience by making the game more
accessible.  I cannot speculate on their success in either
endeavor; I wish them luck.
But back to the point at hand; in the articles and materials I
have published re: MT, I have not only tried to entertain, but to
pull loose ends together.  In a sense, that was the raison de
etre of HT; to get MT out of what I felt was the quagmire of the
Rebellion and to illuminate some of the realities of Imperial
life and economic structure.

However, some realities had to be dispensed with, or at least,
made optional.  For instance, my personal assessment is that the
loss of life due to the disruption of the Rebellion would have
been MUCH more severe.  In fact, it would have been ghastly.  TOO
ghastly to put into a role playing game that has to please a gen-
eral audience.  If Traveller was a series of novels, I would have
stayed right on the money, damn the torpedoes.  But the commer-
cial realities of the gaming market are such that I felt that GDW
would have (rightly) declined to publish anything that reflected
a realistic level of planetary depopulation.  Instead, I took a
middle course; I allowed referees to do this themselves, if they
CHOSE to--by using the planetary decline tables.  A referee who
wants to avoid the stark and tragic probabilities of the
aftermath can modify die-rolls, or find explanations why each and
every population of a doomed world finds a way to escape or
endure.  On the other hand, brutally realistic refs need not
ameliorate the effects; indeed, they may wish to intensify
them...

I think you CAN use HT as is, as much as any other MT product.
In the days BEFORE MT--when the focus of existance was the Mar-
ches and the rest of the Imperium was some vague, off-stage
leviathan--that was different.  In my personal opinion, by
delivering to us players what we were clamoring for--a full ex-
plication of the Imperium and its territories--Traveller may have
come perilously close to undoing itself.  With everything
revealed, there was no mysterious `quantity' from which we could
derive hyoptheses that would explain away inconsistencies in the
game.  Anything unusual in the Marches could have simply been
dismissed as a local aberration.  But once we got a look at the
whole elephant, we had the basis for poking holes in the underly-
ing suppositions (or lack thereof).

So now we have to go back and fill in holes.  I tried to do that
with HT and still take the game in the direction that GDW was in-
terested in going (at the time I made my product proposal).  I'm
not saying the module was a shining success, but I will maintain
that it leaves things better off than they were before. I felt
that Traveller had lost direction entirely and couldn't seem to
extricate itself from the Rebellion because it lacked a new place
to go.

Of course there are still holes to fill, and may always be.  I
feel that Traveller has steered a careful course away from hu-
man/cybernetic interface technologies, cloning and other biologi-
cal sciences.  In many ways, this is wise, because to introduce
ALL the probable technological ramifications concommitant with TL
13-15 would produce a universe we might find hard to recognize at
all.  And if the universe becomes so alien that we poor,
retrograde 20th centuriers don't recognize it, how can we then
referee it or play it?  As with all SF and fantasy, the final
threshold is the beholder's capacity for recognition.  In a game,
that threshold is lower than in a novel.  In a novel, we need
merely follow the author's guidance and be willing to believe.
But in a game, we have to be able to manipulate concrete algo-
rithms that dictate events; in an RPG, reality is not an
autocratic creation of imagination, but a moderated result that
all participants can usually understand.
Whoa!  Let's bring that back to earth!  I'm just saying that the
further into the future we go, the more we must accept that our
vision is imperfect, that we are compromising and not represent-
ing all the changes that would exist.  And if we try to represent
all the changes, we can no longer rely on any of our intuitive,
common-sense knowledge; things are simply too different.
But these concerns are immaterial in the minds of most gamers.
Most gamers want flash and excitement and ENOUGH plausibility for
them to become involved in the experience.  More than that is, to
them, an academic and pointless exercise.  Who cares if cyber
technology of level x would so change society that the players'
value structures are hopelessly outdated and inappropriate?  The
only thing that matters is how colorful and NEAT it is; leave the
logical extrapolation for someone else and pass me that
neuroblaster, oh my little droogie . . .
I gravitated towards Traveller because it tried to encompass both
fun and logical extrapolation, but it has always shown signs of
its mixed pedigree.  I don't think one can purge all the in-
consistencies from the game; the best we can do is try to find
plausible explanations that hold the seams together enough.  I
write this trying to further share my efforts in that regard--but
just because I wrote HT doesn't mean that my answers are best or
right.  True, Marc Miller liked them better than anything else
coming down the pike, and we were in very close step regarding
the nature of the Imperium and what was happening in it.  But I
never felt that Marc was selfish or narrow in his view of the
possibilities inherent in Traveller.  To him, those areas that
were unaddressed represented possibilities for new development,
not errors.  He believed--as I do--that in the process of finding
the explanation, something very interesting and fun can be creat-
ed.  What you see here--and in HT--is my attempt to do just that.

Sorry for all the rambling responses, Hans, but I think it is im-
possible to talk about the fiction presented in Traveller without
addressing the issue of what is going on in terms of the actual
mechanics and considerations of game design.  Quite simply, there
will never be a perfectly thought-out game, because that would be
a work of art--and gaming has become a business, where the empha-
sis is on Product.  Personally, I find that sad, but then again,
I'm a gaming dinosaur.  I simply try to live with in-
consistencies, try to find rational (if occasionally unusual) ex-
planations for them, and enjoy the whole.  With HT, I hoped to
try to pull a bunch of thoughts and explanations together, make a
fun environment that also re-empowered individual players and
perhaps suggest a workable model of Imperial society (which in
turn might illustrate why it was so susceptible to disruption).

- -------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

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Subject: TML Bundle #358: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
4312  06-Jun-92 bryan borich      Alternate Starship combat v2 << Document: 142
4313  06-Jun-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU TL 15 Loop-o-plane? << Hi folks! How do you h
4314  07-Jun-92 Jo Jaquinta       STORY Imperial Advisor Part 2 of 6 << Sarion 
4315  07-Jun-92 bryan borich      GDW Message << Item 2020812 92/06/06 23:50 Fr
4316  07-Jun-92 cat@fgssu1.fgs.sl Story Snippets << STEALING DONUTS, part 1 Lat
4317  08-Jun-92 Robert S. Dean    Assignment: Vigilante << Well, I finally got 
4318  08-Jun-92 Hans Rancke-Madse Message to Loren Wiseman << Dear Mr. Borich, 
4319  08-Jun-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Hey Little Cobra! << John Orthoefer requested
4320  08-Jun-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Two girls for every boy! << I bought a '34 wa

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4312
Date: 06 Jun 92 10:18:16 EDT
From: bryan borich <70541.1410@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Alternate Starship combat v2

Document: 142.03              Date: 19 Oktober 1990 
Subject: Alternate starship combat rules (second draft)
Copies sent to: Clay Bush- Quadrant One Editor
                Joe Fugate- TD Editor
                David Riddell- Corridor SA
                Scott Olson- Amiga data coordinator (disk)
 
 
From: Roger Myhre
      Odvar Solbergsvei 136
      0973 Oslo 9
      Norway
 
***********************************************************************
SUMMARY
Variant starships combat rules. Fighters got more chance to knock out a 
BB if they are in large numbers. Ships or fighters with armor-120 can 
be now be penetrated by weapons smaller than factor-T.
***********************************************************************
 
This is the second draft of the starship combat rules I have generated. 
Those who have my first draft will notice some changes, but the changes 
is mainly additions to the rules I originally made. The damage 
resolution is drastically changed, but the principle is the same. I 
felt that some small cosmetic changes was necessary to get the rules to 
work somewhat more smoothly.
 
In general these rules are intended to make smaller craft able to 
battle a larger craft. What the use is a SDB if it can't make a dent in 
an invading force? Without this ability SDB's are reduced to pirate and 
smuggling control.
 
With this document you should have gotten:
- - Blank damage record form for own use.
- - Filled out damage record form of the Heavy Escort listed in            
  this document.
 
The to hit task. 
      The to hit task is not changed it work good enough as it is. For 
those who hate to roll for each battery may optionally roll once for 
all bearing batteries of one weapon type. Subtract the difficulty value 
to hit from the roll and multiply the remainder with 10%. This 
indicates how many batteries hit.
If a roll was 12 regardless of DM's it is counted as a hit with 10% of 
the batteries hit. This condition can exist when the attacker can only 
hit on 13+ on 2D, excluding all DM's  
Example:The hit task is difficult, 11+. The attacker rolls 15. 
(15-11)*10%=40% of the batteries hit.
When applying the 40% to the number of firing batteries, round up.
 
The to penetrate task. 
Penetration: These tasks are not changed, but if you are using the 
above mentioned rule of combining the the batteries of one weapon into 
one task. The defender may then combine all the defensive batteries, 
which can bear, against the attack. When you are using this rule find 
the ratio of offensive vs defensive batteries and consult the following 
table.
Off/Def
4:1 gives DM+3     The DM's given here is added directly
3:1 gives DM+2     to the attackers task roll. Ratios
2:1 gives DM+1     which exceeds 4:1 or 1:4 is treated as
1:1 gives DM 0     4:1 or 1:4 respectively.
1:2 gives DM-1
1:3 gives DM-2
1:4 gives DM-3
 
To find out how many weapons penetrated, use the same procedure as in 
the hit task. This procedure can also be used against screens, but the 
ratio DM from the table above is not included.
If a roll of 12 on 2D regardless of DM's it is counted as a 
penetration, with 10% of the weapons penetrating defenses. This 
condition exists when penetration is only possible with a roll of 13+ 
on 2D, excluding all DM's
 
1. Damage: 
In the construction rules you calculate hitpoints to the different 
components in a starship, but they are not used in the combat rules. In 
this set of rules we are going to use hitpoints, but not the hitpoints 
calculated from the rules in Referee's Manual.
The weapons does damage equal to their UCP value. Thus a factor-A 
weapon does 10 points of damage. Nuclear or anti-matter weapons does 4 
and five times that in damage respectively.
Damage points to the different components can be found in the tables in 
section 8.
With this document you should have gotten a blank damage record form, 
to record the damage capacity on your crafts. This form is free to copy 
for your own use. If you have not gotten this form, write to me and I 
will send you some copies.
 
Hull: Each time a interior hit is scored one third of the hit damage is 
given to the hull (drop fractions). Armor is reduced with one for each 
critical hit or for each exceptional hit. If the weapon scoring that 
hit was a UCP-1 weapon the hull take the effect on 5+ on 1D instead of 
the interior. With UCP-2 weapons one hit is given to the hull on a roll 
of 3+ on 1D, if this roll fails both hits goes to internal hits table.
 
Power: Damage in the old system was counted in tens of percent. In this 
system it is changed a bit. The damage is divided into hitpoints per 
10% of operating powerplant
For each 10% loss of power, reduce agility with two, until it drops to 
zero.
When 50% of power is lost, spinal mount cannot fire.
When 60% are lost, the ship may either chose to use maneuver drive or 
energy weapons in a combat round turn, but not both.
When 70% are lost, screens are are inoperative, except sandcasters. 
Maneuver is reduced to zero.
When 80% are lost, grav plates and inertial compensators is powerless. 
No weapons may fire.
When 90% are lost, life support fails to work properly.
 
Maneuver: In the old system a hit reduced the maneuver with 1, 2 or 3. 
In this system the maneuver drive may hang in a bit longer. Hitpoints 
are given per maneuver gee.
Jump: As maneuver.
Computer: Weapons with UCP of 1-4 gives Computer-1, UCP 5-9 Computer-2, 
UCP A+ Computer-3. If the computer is a fib model, radiation hits is 
ignored. On exceptional success the computer factor is reduced with one 
additional point.
Crew: As computer.
Sensors: As computer hits.
 
Weapons: As computer hits. If there is only one battery, reduce the UCP 
of the battery with the appropriate number.
Screens: As weapon hits.
 
Critical hits is per the standard rules. But at least one critical hit 
is received if the armor factor is large enough to nullify the critical 
hit.
 
2. Radiation hits: 
When a weapon which does radiation damage scores a hit, 25% of the 
hitpoints is diverged to the radiation hit table. A factor-9 nuclear 
missilebay does 9 points in radiation damage ((9*4)*.25). This damage 
value equals the UCP damage value of unmodified weapon. So a factor-9 
radiation hit against the crew kills 2 crew segments.
 
3. Armor penetration procedure.
In the standard rules, there is no hope that a low UCP weapon can 
penetrate or do any type of damage to a well armored craft. In this 
variant there is a slight chance that fighters and SDB's can make a 
dent in the armor, and possibly a scratch inside a BB.
To penetrate armor:
Routine, OFF=Weapon UCP DM, DEF=Armor DM, Confrontation.
Referee: On a natural 12 not including DM's, a penetration is 
automatic. Weapon DM is UCP/3 (drop fraction) and armor DM is (armor 
value-40)/5 (drop fraction). If the current armor value to the 
defending craft is below 40 it will be +1 DM in attackers favor for 
each 5 step below 40. Meson guns does not roll this task. If they have 
managed to penetrate the configuration, they just pass through the 
armor and explode inside.
Meson gun hits does not damage the hull, because its shot explodes 
inside the craft.
 
4 Damage tables 2D:
     Surface          Interior             Radiation
 1   No effect        No effect            No effect
 2   Weapon           Screen               Weapon
 3   Fuel             Sensor               Weapon
 4   Maneuver         Computer             Crew
 5   Weapon           Power plant          Computer
 6   Maneuver         Crew                 Sensor
 7   Weapon           Power plant          Crew
 8   Weapon           Crew                 Computer
 9   Fuel             Sensor               Weapon
10   Weapon           Jump                 Weapon
11   Interior         Fuel leak            Sensor
12   Interior         Critical             Crew
13   Critical         Critical             Critical
DM's: 
UCP 1-4 DM-1
UCP 5-9 no DM
UCP A+ DM+1
+1 if nuclear, anti-matter weapon or spinal mount.
- -1 if active black globe.
As by the standard rules the spinal mounts get one additional roll for 
each UCP factor above 9. The number of rolls are also reduced by one 
per every third armor point above 40, but at least one roll is allowed. 
This does not affect meson guns.
 
Blackglobes: The blackglobes absorbs a percentage of the damage value 
of the weapon according to its flicker rate. I.e. a blackglobe on 40% 
flicker absorbs 40% of the hitpoints before they take effect. 
Blackglobe overload is by the standard rules. Per the standard rules so 
gives each 10% flicker rate 6 levels of armor, thus making it possible 
to have more than 120 armor points.
 
5. Exceptional success:
That is achieved when a success+4 is rolled including DM's on the hit 
roll. This means that the weapon does 1 point more damage, and the 
armor factor is reduced with one point.
 
6. Effects on Hull inoperative:
When the hull inoperative level is reached, the craft is not dead yet. 
But the end is imminent. So the effects on hull inoperative is  
follows:
- -The craft is restricted to 1G maneuver.
- -Hull is breached.
- -Agility drops to 0.
- -Atmosphere entry is prohibited.
- -Spinal mount may not be fired.
- -Heading changes is severely limited due to stress.
- -Fighters or other crafts may not be retrieved. Although they may be 
launched.
- -Rapid Launch Facilities are inoperative, crafts have to be launched 
 without them.
- -Fuel leak
- -Entering jumpspace prohibited.
- -All hits are increased with one point of damage.
Example: If a crew hit kills 2 sections normally, it would kill 3 
sections now. This effect is cumulative with the exceptional hit rule. 
Hull hits are excepted from increase of damage by the hull inop 
condition.
 
7. Fuel leak:
Clay Bush "Scott Olson (and others before him) have pointed to "Fuel 
Tanks Shattered" result as being an effective kill. Its frequency 
affects both combat and post battle repair and salvage. Should it be 
made less likely? Tied to hull damage?"
 
In my first document on these rules I included fuel tanks shattered, 
and they got quite frequent rolled on the table. So when Clay wrote and 
pointed this out I decided to change it. In this set of rules the fuel 
is lost in segments of days. Jump fuel is also included, if there is 
some present in the tanks. How many days worth of jumpfuel calculated 
in powerplant fuel there is on a ship depends on jump distance and 
powerplant fuel usage.
In fuel leak, there is lost one day worth of fuel per turn. In 1D+1 
turns. If the hull inoperative is reached. It leaks 2D days worth of 
fuel per turn in 1D+2 turns and then the fuel loss is halved from there 
until empty.
 
8. Damage point tables:
Hull:
Displacement ton         Inop level        Destroyed
       - 50                  1                 3
55     - 95                  5                13
100    - 900                10                25
1000   - 9000               15                38
10000  - 90000              20                50
100000 - 900000             25                63
1000000+                    30                75
 
Maneuver:                Inop level
Displacement ton      Hitpoints per gee
       - 95                 1
100    - 900                3
1000   - 9000               5
10000  - 90000              7
100000 - 900000             9
1000000+                   11
To find the destroyed value multiply the total inop value with 2.
If the craft has Electronic circuit protection multiply each maneuver 
gee hitpoint value with 1.5, round fractions up.
 
Jump drive:              Inop level
Displacement ton      Hitpoints per parsec
100    - 900                3
1000   - 9000               5
10000  - 90000              7
100000 - 900000             9
1000000+                   11
To find destroyed value and including electronic circuit protection 
value do as in table above.
 
Powerplant:
Inop hitpoints from     Inop level
the UCP format       Hitpoints per 10% level
       - 9                   1
10     - 99                  2
100    - 999                 3
1000   - 9999                4
10000  - 99999               5
100000 - 999999              6
1000000+                     7
To find destroyed or and including electronic circuit protection value. 
Do as stated in maneuver hit table.
 
Computer:One box per computer model number.
Crew:    One box per crew segment. There is only 334 boxes, so if        
         you need more, you have to use partial checking of the          
         boxes. Just like in the equipment forms in Traveller            
         Digest.
Weapons: One box per battery. If there is only one battery of            
         that weapon, one box per UCP level.
Screens: One box per UCP level of screen.
Armor:   One box per armor point.
Sensors: One box per sensor.
  
9. Filling out a damage record form: 
To this I will use the example craft listed below. There should be a 
copy of a readily filled out form of this craft with this document. A 
good idea would be having the UCP stats of the craft on the front side 
of the form, and having the damage record form on the other side. And 
covering that with some transparent film, so that it can be re-used, 
without wearing the form out too soon.
 
     ID: 	Liikargi Heavy Escort, Type EH, TL 15, Mcr 13,951
   Hull:	 18000/45000 Displacement=20000, Configuration=1SL,
		        Armor=70G, Unloaded=516,268tons, Loaded=548,246tons
  Power:	 1472/1962 Fusion=265,000Mw, Duration=30/90   
   Loco:	 1080/1440 Jump=3, 1350/1800 Maneuver=2,		Top=1000Kph,          
          Cruise=750Kph, NOE=190Kph, Agility=0  
  Commo:	 Laser*4=System, Meson*2=System
Sensors:	 Act EMS*3=FO, Pas EMS*3=Interstellar, EMS jammer*3=FO		        
          Densiometer*3=1Km/HPD, Neutrino*3=10Kw
		        ActObjScan=Routine,	ActObjPin=Routine
		        PasObjScan=Routine,	PasObjPin=Routine
		        PasEngScan=Simple,	PasEngPin=Routine    
Off:	     Missiles=xA0, Mesongun=09x, Fusiongun=x09		          
          Batt      10            2               2
          Bear      10            2               2
Def:    	 DefDM=7, Mesonscreen=7, Nucleardamper=7
          Repulsor=x9x, Sandcaster=xx9
          Batt      3                3
          Bear      3                3
Control:	 Computer=mod9/fib*3, Panel=Hololinked*4132,		Special=LHD*10,
          Environment=Basic Env, Basic LS, Ext LS,		Grav Plates,
          Inertial compensators 
Accomm:	 Crew=268 (20*9), Bridge=13, Engineer=19, Maintenance=26,
         Gunnery=51, Flight=18, Troops=20, Command=24, Stewards=5,
		       Frozen watch=90a, Medic=2
         Small Staterooms=26, Bunks=152, Lowberth=90, Sickbays=4b
	        Subcrafts=100ton*2, 20ton*4  
Other:	  Cargo=17000Kl, Fuel=149399Kl, EMM, Electronic circuit
	        protection, Fuelscoops, FuelPurPlant(12Hrs),		Missiles=100
         rounds divided on 10 batteries totalling		10000 Missiles,
         Objsize=Large, EMlevel=Moderate
Comments:a) The frozen watch crew can replace 10 lost crew segments,
         this makes the craft able to withstand great crew loss.
         b) The sickbays are made of one large stateroom each.
		       The crew sleeps in bunks while the officers and the medics
         sleeps in small staterooms. This was done to increase the 
         cargo space on the craft. However the crew got rather large
         lounge area in the aft and in the middle of the craft.
         This craft is often used as the flagship in an escort fleet.
         Its great size and armament makes it a formidable opponent.
  
Armor      :The craft got 70 armor points, so we cross of the remaining  
            50 armor boxes. 
 
Hull       :Being a 20 000 displacement ton craft it got 20 inoperative 
            boxes. So we cross off the remaining boxes. On the
            destroyed box rows we cross off all but 50 boxes.
 
Maneuver   :Checking in the table above at 20 000 displacement tonnage
            each maneuver gee row is going to have 7 boxes. The craft
            got electronic circuit protection, so we multiply 7 with
            1.5 and gets 10.5 which rounds to 11. On maneuver 1 and 2
            we cross of all boxes but 11. on the remaining 4 rows we
            cross off all the boxes. To get the destroyed value we 
            multiply 7 with 2 for the number of maneuver gee, and then
            multiply that number with 2 to get the final number which
            is 42.
 
Jump       :Same procedure here as maneuver drive.
 
Powerplant :The powerplant got 1472 damage points before inop level is
            reached. This value includes electronic circuit protection,  
            so we have to divide this number on 1.5. Then we get 981. 
            On the table above this indicates that the powerplant got 3
            damage points per 10% step. The procedure is then just as 
            in maneuver drive and jump drive above. 
 
Weapons    :Here we just fills in the type of weapon and the number of
            batteries and factor for each weapon. We cross off all
            boxes but one box for each battery. If you only have one
            battery of a single weapon, leave one box per UCP value 
            unchecked. If you got more batteries that boxes of one
            type, you have to let one box represent more that one
            battery.
  
Screens    :We note down which screen that row of boxes represent, and   
       leaves one box unchecked per UCP factor of the weapon. For
            the Mesonscreen and Nucleardamper this is 7 boxes each.
 
 Computer   :Here there is one box per computer model number. Just
             check off the excess boxes. 
 
Sensors    :Just as computer 
 
Crew       :The craft got 20 crew segments, so we cross off all boxes
            but 20. 
 
Fuel       :Here one box represents one day of fuel usage. This also
            includes jumpfuel. To include the jumpfuel we have to 
            convert it to powerplant fuel, and find out how long the
            powerplant can run on this fuel. To do this we must find 
            out how much of the fuel tankage is jumpfuel. We do this by
            looking up in the referee's manual. Here we find that a
            craft of this size with jump 3 has 800 jump units.
            Multiplying 800 with 13.5 we find the size of the 
            jumpdrive. Multiplying this with 5 and we find the amount
            of fuel which is 54000Kl. This leaves 95399Kl to powerplant
            fuel. Dividing this on 30 we finds that the powerplant use
            3180Kl fuel per day. By dividing 54000 on 3180 we find that
            the jumpfuel can be used as powerplant fuel for 17 days. 
            The total fuel days is then 47 days. Before a ship is 
            entering battle, the referee should determine if there are
            jumpfuel onboard or not. There might also be less fuel than
            the standard 30 days, due to previous usage or loss.  
 
10. Optional sensor rules: 
Make all sensor tasks one level less difficult if the target is in the
adjacent hex. 
 
Make active sensor tasks one level more difficult:
 - If target is within a gas giant.
 - When attempted through a hex where a nuclear missile exploded.
 - If target uses jamming. 
 
Neutrino detections:
 - If target's EMLevel is fain, give DM -1 to neutrino scans.
 - If target's EMLevel is strong, give DM +1 to neutrino scans. 
 
Densiometer detection:
 - If target is small, give DM -1 to densiometer scans.
 - If target is large, give DM +1 to densiometer scans.
 - Increase detection task difficulty by one level if detection is 
   attempted through a planet or moon with size 5+ or though a
   planetoid belt. 
 
11. Fighter squadrons.
A fighter squadron consist of 8 to 10 crafts. The fighters in a given
squadron may be of different designs, but they must have the same
agility.I have found it cumbersome to roll on the hit location table
when a fighter squadron is hit. So this rule simplifies this greatly.I
decided to lend a rule from FASA's Leviathan (with modifications). Add
up all the hull inop values of the crafts in the squadron, and note it
down on a piece of paper. Then add up the hull destroyed number and
note this down behind the first number. The first number then reflects
how much damage the squadron can take before it is inoperative, while
the other number tell when it will be killed. The squadron takes full
weapon UCP hit. Hits by nuclear or anti-matter rounds subtract 25% from
the total damage. Hull is not damaged by radiation. When the battle is
over, distribute the hits randomly among crafts in the squadron. 
 
12. Firing arcs. 
Originally there is no firing arc defined by the rules, except for the
limit of weapons who can bear at a single target. I would like to
introduce a simple rule to change this a bit.Spinal mounts may only
fire in the hex side arc of the crafts direction of travel. Spinal
mounts may not fire at fighters.If all bearing batteries fires at a
target in one hex side arc, none of the other batteries of this weapon
may not fire at any other target in the same arc. 
 
13. Boarding, the quick and dirty way. 
In small scale space combat, boarding can be performed on pre-drawn
deck plans. But in large scale space combat this will be cumbersome.
The entire boarding may be resolved in one task.
To capture a ship by boarding:
Difficult,Off=tactics,qualityDM,DEF=tactics,QualityDM,RatioDM,confronta
tion
Referee: If the ship troops have been killed on the defending craft,
50% of the remaining crew may then work as ship troops, but the
difficulty is then reduced to Routine.
  
Troop qualityDM     Die        Off/Def RatioDM
Recruit      0       1           4:1    DM-3
Regular      1      2-3          3:1    DM-2
Veteran      2      4-5          2:1    DM-1
Elite        3       6           1:1    DM 0
                                 1:2    DM+1
                                 1:3    DM+2
                                 1:4    DM+3
  
If the troop quality of a ship is not known, roll a die on the above
table. If there is more than one ship who is boarding a defender, use
the average troop quality DM, round to the closest whole number. 
If the capture of the craft was successful, roll once on critical hit
table. This reflects internal damage taken in the combat. Reroll if 
ship vaporize is the result, but if that is rolled again, the result is
not ignored. If ship vaporize is the end result, all ship troops
participating in the boarding is lost. Crafts in same or the adjacent
hex roll once on the exterior table with weapon UCP strength equal
displacement/100 for same hex. Displacement/1000 for adjacent hex. The
result will be at least one. The displacement is of the exploding ship.
There is no extra roll on the hit table for UCP levels beyond 9. 
  
Troop loss table.
Attackers successlevel       Off loss         Defloss 
Extreme failure                80%        20%, 1 crew segment 
Failure                        60%        40%, 3 crew segments 
Success                        40%        60%, 5 crewsegments
Extreme success                20%        80%, 1D+7 crew segments
 
If the result is failure for the attacker, he may try again next round,
if he wish. Troops from more than one attacking ship may participate in
the boarding. If PC's participate in this type of combat, they will
have to roll a survival task.
 
To survive a quick and dirty combat:
Difficulty,Skill,Stat,Hazard
Referee: The difficulty depends on attackers task roll.
  
Attackers success      Difficulty     Hazard            
Extreme Failure        Formidable     Fateful,Hazardous
Failure                Difficult      Hazardous
Success                Routine        Fateful
Extreme Success        Simple 
 
This table is used unmodified if the PC's are the attackers, If they
are the defenders you have to turn it up side down. If the attacking
NPC had a success on his task, the survival task roll difficulty for
the PC's would then be Difficult. The PC may choose any combat skill he 
wish, and a stat that can be used with that skill. 
Example: Tactics, Int or Laser weapons, Dex. 
 
14. Remote fire guidance. 
In some occasions a craft may loose all its sensors. This will make the
craft effectively blind. But there is possible to get guidance from a
second craft. A ship who has detected the enemy may radio the other
ship(s) about the positions of enemy and friendly crafts. If this is
done, give the blind firing unit a DM-1.This tactic can be used in
ambush, where one ship in the fleet acts as a picket. It constantly
tells where the enemy ships are until a desired fire solution is
reached, where the attackers fires simultaneously. This type of tactic
is useful in belts and gas giants, where the waiting ships hides while
the picket searches for targets. This type of tactic is typical for
todays wet navy. 
 
Last words.
I hope you readers like these rules. I have tried to make the rules
simple and understandable as possible. If you have any questions or
suggestions to changes, I would like to hear them. It costs nothing but
a stamp.


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4313
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1992 14:53 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: TL 15 Loop-o-plane?

Hi folks!

How do you have fun at a TL 15 county fair?

CraftID:  Railless Grav Rollercoaster, TL 15, Cr 35,845
Hull:     (5/12) Disp=.5, Config=1AF, Armor=1G,
	  Unloaded=.2781, Loaded=.3123
Power:    (1/1) FuelCell=270kw Dur=5/15
Loco:     (1/1) StdGrav=2.47t, Accel=6.9G,
	  NOE=190, Cruise=3150, Top=4200
Comm:     Radio=Dist*1
Sensors:  Headlight*2
Off/Def:  With 6.9 G turns, the passengers can really get sick...
Control:  Robot Brain Intelligence=3, Education=1
Program:  Grav Vehicle-4, Low Data, Lim Bas Cmd
Accom:    Crew=0(Passengers=3) Seats=Cramped*3,
	  BasicEnv, BarfBag*3
Other:    Fuel=.488kl, Financial Package(pay in advance!),
	  EMLevel=Mod, ObjSize=Small

The interior is carefully made of durable plastics to facilitate
cleaning.
I suppose you could also use this as a grav taxi, but it has no
inertial compensators, so it would give you a mighty rough ride!

Scott "2G" Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4314
From: Jo Jaquinta <jaymin@maths.tcd.ie>
Subject: STORY Imperial Advisor  Part 2 of 6
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 92 8:19:29 BST


     Sarion stood in a dress suit outside a door from which there
could  just  be heard the buzz of conversation. He paced  up  and
down,  worried. A door opened and Ynno hesitantly stepped  in.  A
look of relief crossed Sarion's face.
     "Ynno!  Where have you been?" He waved his  hands.  "They're
all here. Where were you? Clare has been in a tizzy."
     "Is Bethula here?" he asked fidgeting with his neck tie.
     "Yes  she's here. And stop that" he said, slapping his  hand
away. "You look fine."
     "I  was  worried. I thought she might not turn up.  I  don't
know what to say."
     Sarion shook his shoulders and growled at him. Ynno  blinked
several  times.  Sarion let him go and  with  deliberate  motions
pinned  a badge onto him. "None of that now." He opened the  door
and  ushered  him  in.  "You were  right  about  her  charm",  he
whispered in his ear. "But mind Ms. Didascalos, with her."
     "Not Battleaxe?" Ynno whispered back.
     "Apparently they've taken her out again and dusted her  off.
Hello,  Mr. Gorgreflen!" he said to a delegate who wandered  into
them. They made small talk for a while and them moved on,  taking
glasses  from  a passing tray. Ynno took a small gulp.  "Easy  on
that" cautioned Sarion. "It's strong."
     "I reckon I need it", said Ynno.
     "Yes,  well  hold  tight" He elbowed  his  way  between  two
conversations to where their quarry stood surveying the  company.
"Hello  Ms.  Didascalos  and welcome back. And..."  he  made  the
pretence of peering at her nametag, "Ms. Myragail. You're new  to
the business?"
     "We've  just  taken her on", said Ms. Didascalos.  "We  have
every confidence in her." Bethula smiled modestly.
     "Well then", continued Sarion, "I must introduce you to  our
Imperial  Specialist. Ynno, come here. This is Ynno Hollis.  This
is  Ms.  Bethula  Myragail and I believe  you  already  know  Ms.
Didascalos."  They  all mumbled acknowledgements to  each  other.
"Actually,  Ms.  Didascalos, there is someone here  I  think  you
would  do  well  to  meet;  our  newest  member  of  staff.   Her
speciality  may  be  of particular  interest  to  you..."  Sarion
carefully trailed her away leaving Ynno with Bethula.
     "Well,  um"  started  Ynno.  "The  government  provides   an
excellent  advisory service which you can do no ill  to  consult.
There's coordinaion with other companies and well... I believe  I
saw  you  at the conference. I wanted to introduce myself  but  I
didn't  get the chance." She smiled and nodded, looking over  his
shoulder.  "I  was watching your cues. You know your  field  very
well..."
     "I've had experience", she said a bit distractedly.
     "Yes,  well,  my training was, umm...  Oh,  you're  drinking
water.  You should really try some of the wine. It is really  top
quality."
     She  looked  at  him for almost the first  time  and  smiled
warmly.  Ynno's  eyes became vacant and it felt as if  his  heart
stopped. "Thank you, perhaps I shall. But first I must  disengage
Ms. Didascalos from old companions and remind her of the business
of  the  evening. Your pardon?" Her voice was smooth  in  perfect
Imperial emphasis and intonation.
     "Always, Madam", he replied just as correctly. And she left.
Sarion found him a few minutes later, standing there watching the
wine  swirl in his nearly empty glass; a silly expression on  his
face.
     "Ynno. What happened?" Ynno looked up and giggled. "What did
you say?", he repeated.
     "I can't remember", he chortled.
     "Well what did she say?"
     "I can't remember that either! She, she, _was_."
     "Come  on,  we  can't let her see you  a  simpering  idiot!"
Sarion  led him back through the staff entrance into  a  hallway.
Ynno  tossed back the last of his wine and held the glass to  the
light. He laughed out loud.
     "She  is  the  stars  of night! She is  the  diadem  of  the
Emperor's  crown! She is the dew of morning!" He turned  a  quick
circle  around  Sarion.  "She  has looked on  me  and  I  can  do
anything!"  He threw the glass over his head and caught  it  with
the other hand, laughing wildly.
     "Are  you smitten or are you smitten?" He tousled his  hair.
"What do you think she feels?"
     "I don't know, I don't care. I have looked in the eyes of  a
god!"  They  embraced firmly and Sarion staggered a  bit  at  the
unnatural weight. Some of the cheer left his eyes. "I don't think
I can go back in there."
     "Certainly  not in this state!" Ynno giggled and  threw  his
wine glass into the air again, missing this time. They both broke
into  peals of laughter. A member of the staff stuck  their  head
out  the  kitchen door and looked disapprovingly at  them  for  a
moment.  They  quickly  sobered for a  moment  before  collapsing
against the wall when it disappeared. Sarion eventually recovered
himself. "You. You float home. I shall have to go back inside  to
hold  up the department's end." Ynno looked thanks into his  eyes
and wandered off. Sarion caught up with him and turned him in the
right direction.
     Back  inside  Clare was waiting discreetly at the  door.  "I
kept  her occupied as long as I could. She just pounced  on  poor
Mr. Gorgreflen though."
     "Well our lover boy has drifted off."
     "Are you sure he'll make it home?"
     "He  should  be  all right. He's higher  than  the  Aerostat
though."
     "Perhaps I should walk him home."
     "Nah.  We've  got to manage our lovely guests. If  the  wine
doesn't get them."
     Clare  still looked doubtful but put on her smile again  and
they both mixed.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4315
Date: 07 Jun 92 15:21:24 EDT
From: bryan borich <70541.1410@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: GDW Message

Item    2020812                 92/06/06        23:50
From:   GDW.SUPPORT                     Loren K. Wiseman
To:     B.BORICH                        Bryan J. Borich
Sub: TML

Brian,
     Please be so kind as to send the following to the TML:

     Scott Kellogg
          Re: your offer to GDW, I accept on the company's behalf. I do
not have internet access (I have to work through Herr Borich's kind
ness), so if you would prepare a summary of the leading suggestions
I will see to it that they are read anc considered by the Traveller: The
New Era design team (of which I am, alas, not a member...I have other duties
these days).

     Steve Higginbotham: I thought I did pretty good spelling your name...
especially considering that I was not (and am not) referring to to
written matter. Remind me to tell you how often my name is mispelled. I
realize that you are mostly in jest in referring to all GDW employees as
idiots, and I hereby take you up on your offer to help out with the
New Era revision, with the following proviso: Communicating with you through
TML/Borich is too slow...and I do not have internet access (and am not likely
to get it inthe near future. I need a land mail address, fax number, or some
common BBS over which we can exchange materials. When the design team needs
information (physics, dialectic materialism, etc.), they will want an
answer fast.

 Hans Rancke-Madsen: The note to Steve H applies to you also: can you get me a
fax number, mail address, or a common BBS? We'll be happy to have you help out.
 This applies to anybody else who wants to get their 2 cents in or help us
out with "reality checks" and the like. We gotta have 'em done fast or they are
useless to us.

     Wildstar: Our virus idea predates the "Macho Women with Guns"
product you quoted. Greg POrter, the publisher, says his notion was inspired by
Drexler's _Engines of Creation_ (which makes the little suckers nanites,
not a virus...although a case could be made that the two are pretty much
the same in the end).
 Nuff said?

               Loren K. Wiseman
=END=


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4316
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 92 19:42:12 PDT
From: cat@fgssu1.fgs.slb.COM (Rather B. Fishing)
Subject: Story Snippets 


STEALING DONUTS, part 1
Late 1117 through Early 1118

There just isn't that much to do in jump.  You stand some watches, you
do some drills, run some diagnostics.  This paticular crew, like many
others, got a little restless.  Mind you, MC and Thilia got into a
computer prank war which ended after MC shot five slugs into the
bulkhead.  And the Zhoe melted MC's boots (not that MC hadn't been
asking for it...).  Rocky and MC booby-trapped Sean's solamani
bagpipes.  Oh, yes, and then there was the time most everyone went
after Gertie's donuts...

It started on the first jump on the way home from Gushemege.  Someone
did a smart thing making Gertie mission commander, since she was the
only person probably keeping the various hotheads on the crew from
killing each other.  Since she was in charge, however, it took people
a while to get over being wary of her.  After all, most people do find
an ex-cop over 2 meters tall rather intimidating...

Understand now, Gertie is a big girl with a lot of energy and stamina,
but even the Gerties of the universe hit the middle-age slump in
metabolism.  Gertie's been fighting the battle of the pastry roll for
a few years now, and so far the pastries have been gaining on her.
She just likes those donuts too much.

Now, none of this escaped the crew.  By the time we got out of
Gushemege, everyone knew about Gertie's attempts to cut back on the
snacking and to exercise more.  And you know how some people are a tad
touchy about losing weight...  Well, the marines on the boat decided
to help out a bit.

Gertie would get up every morning and make straight for the box of
pastries and donuts, piling at least five or six on a plate as her
breakfast.  The marines decided to help her reduce her intake.  Here
Gertie would be munching on a donut, distracted by conversation or
reading; while she was otherwise occupied, a marine would snake across
the deckplates and attempt to steal one or more donuts without getting
caught.  For the first few days, Gertie was clueless.  She actually
thought she was losing track of the number of donuts she ate.

It was inevitable for Gertie to catch on.  One morning Gertie reached
for a donut at the same time one of the marines was.  The poor sap was
slammed up against the bulkhead with an arm lock before he knew what
was happening.  He was on the floor in a half-crouch when Gertie's
hand contacted his, and she actually picked him up off the floor and
twisted him in the air before flattening him against the wall.  

	"Only helping myself to a donut, Ma'am," he squeaked.
	
One blond eyebrow lifted, which of course, having his face mushed into
the bulkhead the marine couldn't see.

	"I see," she said with a half-smile.  "It might be healthier
to ask next time."
	"Yes, Ma'am," he squeaked, "can I go now, Ma'am?"
	"Oh I think so," and she took him by collar, dragged him over
to where Morris was sitting, and dropped him at Morris's feet.
	"Sargeant, I think this might be yours."
	Morris looked down at this poor sap, with a glance of contempt
for a botched attempt, and replied: "I'm afraid so, Ma'am.  I'll take
care of him."  And then, with a great flourish, Morris took a bite out
of the donut which he had stolen not a few seconds earlier from
Gertie's plate.  
	Gertie gave him the ol'eyebrow; and as she turned away, she
was heard muttering under her breath: "I'll get you for this,
Norris..."

********************************************************************

Gertie's a good sport, actually.  Someone put Rocky up to stealing
some of Gertie's donuts.  Enter one racoonid, wearing that wierd suit
of his, walking up-side-down on the ceiling.  Down came the gapple hook,
up came the donut, and out flashed Gertie's hand, grabbing the donut
before it got out of reach.

	"Do you mind?"  Two blond eyebrows frowned.
	"Just getting a donut <chitter>"
	"Well, the box is over there on the counter - go get your own,
fuzztail."
	"But yours were <chitter> closer, Gertie."  

(Ever see a racconid try to play innocent?  Well, it doesn't work
well.  Racoonids are lousy liars.)

	"Uh huh, Rocky, and you just happened to have a grapple hook
in your pocket by chance?  Right."  Gertie detached her donut from the
hook, moved the plate of donuts inside the bend of her elbow, and went
back to reading.  Anyone listening, however, would have heard her
mutter under her breath: "I'll get you for this, Norris."

********************************************************************

The donut heists got more interesting once the big-guns like Sean and
MC got involved, but we'll save that for next time...


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4317
Date:     Mon, 8 Jun 92 9:06:17 EDT
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Assignment: Vigilante

Well, I finally got my copy of A:V over the weekend.  Did Bertil leave for the
U.S. yet?  If I'd have known that the "Admiral Bertil" design was going to be
featured prominently in a official product, I'd have named it after myself....
(-: (-: (-:

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4318
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Message to Loren Wiseman
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 92 19:24:11 MET DST

Dear Mr. Borich,
        Please forward this to Loren Wiseman.

> Hans Rancke-Madsen: The note to Steve H applies to you also: can you get me
>a fax number, mail address, or a common BBS? We'll be happy to have you
>help out.

Very well. No fax or BBS, unfortunately, but my mail address is:

Hans Rancke
Ved Kildevaeldskirken 5, 2th
2100 O   [That's an 'O' with a slash through, actually]
DENMARK

I'm looking forward to helping out.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"I know there are some people in the world who do not tolerate their
fellow human beings, and I just can't _stand_ people like that!"
                                (after Tom Lehrer)

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4319
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1992 13:57 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Hey Little Cobra!

John Orthoefer requested this one  :-)

Hey Little Cobra, gettin' ready to strike!
Hey Little Cobra, with all your might!
Hey Little Cobra, don't you know you're gonna shut 'em down!

CraftID:  Cobra TL6, Cr 7067
Hull:     (8/20) Disp=.88, Config=6SL, Armor=1B,
          Unloaded=4.1, Loaded=5.3
Power:    (2/3) ImpIntComb=1013kw, Dur=3hrs
Loco:     (1/2) MagWheels=4, P/W=192, Road=261, Offroad=78
          (No cargo:  P/W=236, Road=305, Offroad=92 {191mph!})
Comm:     Radio=Reciever
Sensors:  Headlight*2
Off/Def:  Jaguars and Stingrays are so far behind,
          Took my cobra outta gear and let it coast to the line!
Control:  EnhMech*1
Accom:    Crew=1(Driver=1) Seats=Cramp*2, None*2, BasicEnv
Other:    Fuel=.16kl, Cargo=1Kl, EMLevel=Mod, ObjSize=Sm

Scott "2G" Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4320
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1992 13:58 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Two girls for every boy!

I bought a '34 wagon and we call it a woody
Ya know, it's not very cherry it's an oldie but a goodie...

CraftID:  Woody, TL5, Cr 2473
Hull:     (9/23) Disp=1, Config=6USL, Armor=0Wood,
          Unloaded=1.8, Loaded=7
Power:    (1/2) IntComb=125kw Dur=8hrs
Loco:     (1/2) Wheels=4, P/W=17, Road=65, Offroad=20
          (No Cargo P/W=64, Road=123, Offroad=40)
Sensors:  Headlight*2
Off/Def:  Well, it aien't got a back seat or a rear window,
          But it still get's me where I wanna go!
Control:  Mech*1
Accom:    Crew=1(Driver=1) Seats=Cramp*2, None*2, BasicEnv
Other:    Fuel=.12kl, Cargo=5.1Kl,(+Surfboard Rack on Roof)
          EMLevel=Mod, ObjSize=Small
Remarks:  The price shown above includes a back seat and a rear
window.  However this cost FAR less than the 10000+Cr grav
surfboards.  But as the Hard Times hit and we slide down the Tech
level scale, perhaps you WOULD see this baby with 2 TL 10 grav
surfboards on top...

Totally Bogus Man!

Scott "2G" Kellogg

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed Jun 10 21:00:30 PDT 1992
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #359: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
4321  08-Jun-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Rallying the troops for TNE/TDR II << Hi folk
4322  08-Jun-92 Robert S. Dean    Re: (4312) Alternate Starship combat v2 << br
4323  08-Jun-92 Mark F. Cook      Re: Rallying the troops for TNE/TDR II << Sco
4324  08-Jun-92 Robert S. Dean    Re: Rallying the troops for TNE/TDR II << In 
4325  08-Jun-92 Mark F. Cook      Re: Rallying the troops for TNE/TDR II << > >
4326  08-Jun-92 Hans Rancke-Madse Re: Rallying the troops for TNE/TDR II << Mar
4327  08-Jun-92 James T Perkins   Robots at TL7 << Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.c
4328  08-Jun-92 Chuck Gannon      Roughneck Class << (Dear James; please post t

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4321
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1992 14:45 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Rallying the troops for TNE/TDR II

Hi folks,

I am honored that Loren Wiseman asked for our help.  Hot damn!  :-)

I'm going on vacation starting tomorrow.  I expect to be back around the
17th.  Now, Mark pointed out that perhaps we don't need an coordinator,
and I am not really fully coordinated enough to take on the task of
coordinating it ALL.

But, what I would suggest is this:
I feel comfortable, mainly with craft design (obviously!)  What I intend to
do is to review the stuff that has been said about tweaking the MegaTrav
system up to something that works well.

Basically, What *I* intend to give them is a step by step by step review of
the craft design system.  *I* think that the MegaTrav system is basically
quite good (else why should I spend so much time woking on it?), but some
systems need to be clarified, rules need to be enforced, and explained.
Also the system needs to be made consistant.

This is the area I feel most competant to try and work in.  Believe me I
would LOVE to coordinate such an effort.  (when I get back)  (I'll have
35+ hrs solo driving time to think about it.)  I feel that a coordinator
while not absolutely necessary, will certainly help.  The crew of GDW
is gonna have limited patience listening to 300+ people all giving
contradictory views on the TML.

What *I* would like to do would be to have folks send their ideas on craft
design to me.  I'll go through it and pick up the best ideas and try to
incorporate as many as I can into a coherant write up for them to read.

Now, everybody who has used the craft system has opinions about it.  I may
have missed something.  I know there are people out there who are much more
competant at some designs than I.  I would LOVE to hear from George on
water craft design comments.

Computers:
One area we all know that is in need of touching up is computers.  Nobody
has a good answer for what a model 1 computer is.  Nobody knows how a
robot brain compairs to a Model 1.  That is a big problem with the design
system.  I however am the original Computer-0 guy.  I think that perhaps
we should try to hammer together a system to try to equate robot brain
design to the various Model 1's, 2's, 9's etc.  I would love to hear some
input from the *REAL* Computer Jocks out there.   (Mark?  James?)

Since the virus is coming into the game, it will be important that what
computers that *DO* exist will be usable and realistic.  This also, may
allow us to introduce some cyber-punkish computer stuff into Trav.  This
may or may not be desirable.  I don't know, but it is something we might
look into.

It seems to me that while I am competant enough to put together a summary
of craft design stuff, I am not well aquainted enough to go through all
of traveller and find all the strengths and weaknesses.  I know *ZERO* 
about trade and commerce stuff, while Steve, Hans, Wildstar and others
really know the stuff.  I suspect there are rather a few of us who could
take on the task of coming up with a definiteive critique of various
aspects of Traveller.  Let's play to our strengths:

I would suggest that if someone feels competant enough to coordinate some
aspect, please volunteer to do so.  Then we can get our best people working
in their best areas on some tough problems.

Let's GO!

Scott 2G Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4322
Date:     Mon, 8 Jun 92 16:32:31 EDT
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  (4312) Alternate Starship combat v2

bryan borich <70541.1410@CompuServe.COM> forwards the following:
> Subject: (4312) Alternate Starship combat v2
> From: Roger Myhre
>       Odvar Solbergsvei 136
>       0973 Oslo 9
>       Norway
>  
> In general these rules are intended to make smaller craft able to 
> battle a larger craft. What the use is a SDB if it can't make a dent in 
> an invading force? Without this ability SDB's are reduced to pirate and 
> smuggling control.

You know, I still have a slight problem with this.  My gut feel is that,
given the current design rules, unarmored or lightly armored vessels will
be favored over 'bricks', with meson guns being the decisive armament.  _If_
that is true, then SDBs will have something to do because it won't be cost
effective to provide complete protection against them.

> 1. Damage: 
> In the construction rules you calculate hitpoints to the different 
> components in a starship, but they are not used in the combat rules. In 
> this set of rules we are going to use hitpoints, but not the hitpoints 
> calculated from the rules in Referee's Manual.

)-:  I'd like to see those numbers used for consistency's sake.  In my personal
opinion, the current rules are at a 'bad' level of abstraction.  I'd be willing
to go in either direction--less detail ala High Guard, or more detail in some
attempt to provide compatibility from vehicles on up.

> Power: Damage in the old system was counted in tens of percent. In this 
> system it is changed a bit. The damage is divided into hitpoints per 
> 10% of operating powerplant
> For each 10% loss of power, reduce agility with two, until it drops to 
> zero.
> When 50% of power is lost, spinal mount cannot fire.
> When 60% are lost, the ship may either chose to use maneuver drive or 
> energy weapons in a combat round turn, but not both.
> When 70% are lost, screens are are inoperative, except sandcasters. 
> Maneuver is reduced to zero.
> When 80% are lost, grav plates and inertial compensators is powerless. 
> No weapons may fire.
> When 90% are lost, life support fails to work properly.

This is a pretty crude approximation.  I could send you a bundle of combat
and non-combat starship designs to give you a database to develop a "realistic"
profile from.

> So a factor-9 
> radiation hit against the crew kills 2 crew segments.

Radiation death for the crew should possibly be slow acting, and if we liked
some of the medical expansion stuff from TD, isn't is reversible damage?

> 7. Fuel leak:
> Clay Bush "Scott Olson (and others before him) have pointed to "Fuel 
> Tanks Shattered" result as being an effective kill. Its frequency 
> affects both combat and post battle repair and salvage. Should it be 
> made less likely? Tied to hull damage?"

I don't suppose it would be useful enough to the overall game to add in a
fuel compartmentalization factor in the design stage?  More compartments=
more mass=more cost=less fuel lost per puncture...Given the assumption that
such compartmentalization _does_ now exist and that we just ignore it for the
sake of simplicity, we should also make the chance of actual loss of fuel from
a hit proportional to the amount of fuel currently being carried. (A d10 based
saving thow would probably be acceptable, especially in TNE when they switch
over to a d20 based game system)
> 12. Firing arcs. 
> Originally there is no firing arc defined by the rules, except for the
> limit of weapons who can bear at a single target. I would like to
> introduce a simple rule to change this a bit.Spinal mounts may only
> fire in the hex side arc of the crafts direction of travel. Spinal
> mounts may not fire at fighters.If all bearing batteries fires at a
> target in one hex side arc, none of the other batteries of this weapon
> may not fire at any other target in the same arc. 

I see no indication of a time/distance scale in this draft.  If we remain with
20 minute turns, which seems desirable to me (gutting the technology and
having combat at a few hundred kms seems like a bad idea), then a ship should 
be able to rotate (Without changing its vector!!!) to any heading for firing
purposes.  Since I like to keep Traveller a little more realistic than the
average "WWII in Space" game, I think that it is important to maintain the 
notion of vector velocity with the resulting differentiation between the 
direction of travel and where the nose is pointing.

> 13. Boarding, the quick and dirty way. 

Long segment of rules for a very low probability event.  Simpler boarding
rules: A ship with no maneuver capability and no weapons may be boarded
and captured by a force able to field a 2:1 superiority in troop strength...


Thanks to Bryan for porting this over for us.  Hope our comments aren't
discouraging Roger too much.

Rob Dean



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4323
From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: Re: Rallying the troops for TNE/TDR II
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 92 13:54:27 PDT

Scott K. writes about GDW taking up his offer to participate in
the rules design for MegaTraveller: The New Era:

> I'm going on vacation starting tomorrow.  I expect to be back around the
> 17th.  Now, Mark pointed out that perhaps we don't need an coordinator,
> and I am not really fully coordinated enough to take on the task of
> coordinating it ALL.
>                        ........                I feel that a coordinator
> while not absolutely necessary, will certainly help.  The crew of GDW
> is gonna have limited patience listening to 300+ people all giving
> contradictory views on the TML.
> 
> What *I* would like to do would be to have folks send their ideas on craft
> design to me.  I'll go through it and pick up the best ideas and try to
> incorporate as many as I can into a coherant write up for them to read.

How much do you plan on changing material we submit?  It's one thing
to act as a reviewer, but I'm not sure I want my material editting
*before* it gets to GDW.  Other than that one quibble, I agree that
there should be only one (or very few, at least) contact with them to
avoid overwhelming them with input.

> Computers:
> One area we all know that is in need of touching up is computers.  Nobody
> has a good answer for what a model 1 computer is.  Nobody knows how a
> robot brain compairs to a Model 1.  That is a big problem with the design
> system.  I however am the original Computer-0 guy.  I think that perhaps
> we should try to hammer together a system to try to equate robot brain
> design to the various Model 1's, 2's, 9's etc.  I would love to hear some
> input from the *REAL* Computer Jocks out there.   (Mark?  James?)

I'm willing to give it a shot.  I'd like to work with James, but unless
his work schedule changes, I suspect there's vanishing small chance he'll
have the time to contribute.  BTW, are we writing from scratch, reviewing
existing drafts, or both?  If working from existing stuff, how do we get
the original material from GDW?

> Since the virus is coming into the game, it will be important that what
> computers that *DO* exist will be usable and realistic.  This also, may
> allow us to introduce some cyber-punkish computer stuff into Trav.  This
> may or may not be desirable.  I don't know, but it is something we might
> look into.

It would be nice to have some direction and guidelines from GDW.  For
example, I'd hate to spend a month developing rules for netrunning only
to discover that they don't want that sort of thing in MT:TNE as it makes
it look too cyberpunkish.  We need a little boundary criteria, don't you
think?

BTW, I'd also like to work on a unified combat system (at *least* personal
and vehicle, but inclusion of air, sea, and space combat would be nice too).

> It seems to me that while I am competant enough to put together a summary
> of craft design stuff, I am not well aquainted enough to go through all
> of traveller and find all the strengths and weaknesses.  I know *ZERO* 
> about trade and commerce stuff, while Steve, Hans, Wildstar and others
> really know the stuff.  I suspect there are rather a few of us who could
> take on the task of coming up with a definiteive critique of various
> aspects of Traveller.  Let's play to our strengths:

Since Trade & Commerce is so badly broken in current MT, I think this is
definitely an area the our 'pros' need to concentrate on.  Steve H., Wildstar,
Rob Dean, and Dow Rieder are the first names that come to mind here.  I
notice that only Steve and Rob are in this mail header, so I think Dow
and Derek (what *is* his real name, anyway?) should definitely be asked
to participate.  (I'm including both of them in this shotgun reply, on the
chance that they'll be interested.)

> I would suggest that if someone feels competant enough to coordinate some
> aspect, please volunteer to do so.  Then we can get our best people working
> in their best areas on some tough problems.

With the regular TML PBEM on summer hiatus and other RPG activities
currently in cold-storage, I'll volunteer.

Assuming I get majority approval (and some contact info from Scott), I'll
contact Loren right after I get back from vacation (I should be back on
June 29th)and see if I can get some design guidelines for the new rules.
Most of you know what a stickler for detail I am, so I think I could
organize things reasonably well.  I promise not to stomp anyone's ideas,
as long as they don't conflict with any guidelines set down by GDW.
I promise to pass on only material in a form approved by the original
author, i.e. I'm not going to re-write it after you submit it.  I *will*,
however,do spelling and grammar checking on submitted material and query
the author for corrections before passing any material along, OK?  And
finally, I promise to make sure that GDW gets all the appropriate names
listed in the final product, and SPELLS THEM RIGHT!! :^)

Later,
	- Mark

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4324
Date:     Mon, 8 Jun 92 16:58:46 EDT
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  Rallying the troops for TNE/TDR II

In your letter dated Mon, 8 Jun 92 13:54:27 PDT, you wrote:
>
> > Since the virus is coming into the game, it will be important that what
> > computers that *DO* exist will be usable and realistic.  This also, may
> > allow us to introduce some cyber-punkish computer stuff into Trav.  This
> > may or may not be desirable.  I don't know, but it is something we might
> > look into.
> 
> It would be nice to have some direction and guidelines from GDW.  For
> example, I'd hate to spend a month developing rules for netrunning only
> to discover that they don't want that sort of thing in MT:TNE as it makes
> it look too cyberpunkish.  We need a little boundary criteria, don't you
> think?
> 
> BTW, I'd also like to work on a unified combat system (at *least* personal
> and vehicle, but inclusion of air, sea, and space combat would be nice too).


OK.  GMTA.  I just posted a notice last night on GEnie asking about guidelines
for TNE.  No answer yet.  We should probably get together a list of things that
we think _should_ be considered (like do it yourself computer rules) and run it
by them, even without waiting for guidelines. Doing serious work is not prudent
yet.


> And
> finally, I promise to make sure that GDW gets all the appropriate names
> listed in the final product, and SPELLS THEM RIGHT!! :^)

Good luck!!!!!!!!!!!

Rob (A:V) Dean (-:


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4325
From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: Re:  Rallying the troops for TNE/TDR II
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 92 14:12:50 PDT

> > And
> > finally, I promise to make sure that GDW gets all the appropriate names
> > listed in the final product, and SPELLS THEM RIGHT!! :^)
> 
> Good luck!!!!!!!!!!!

Ah, er, OK.  Let me amend that to, "I promise to try my *hardest* to make
sure that GDW..." :^) :^)

Later,
	- Mark

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4326
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Rallying the troops for TNE/TDR II
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 92 23:16:42 MET DST

Mark Cook writes:
>Scott Kellogg:
>
>>Computers:
>>One area we all know that is in need of touching up is computers. Nobody
>>has a good answer for what a model 1 computer is. Nobody knows how a
>>robot brain compairs to a Model 1. That is a big problem with the design
>>system. I however am the original Computer-0 guy. I think that perhaps
>>we should try to hammer together a system to try to equate robot brain
>>design to the various Model 1's, 2's, 9's etc. I would love to hear some
>>input from the *REAL* Computer Jocks out there.  (Mark? James?)

One small suggestion: Get the tech levels explicitly divorced from the
Terran dates. Just because we make it today on Earth dosen't mean it
HAS to be TL 8 (or is 1990 TL 9? I forget. Anyway, you get the point).
This will allow us to define computer models as we like it. So what if
Terra had a computer TL of 12 or 13 in 1990? Obviously we're going to hit
a plateau in a few years... ;-).

>I'm willing to give it a shot. I'd like to work with James, but unless
>his work schedule changes, I suspect there's vanishing small chance he'll
>have the time to contribute. BTW, are we writing from scratch, reviewing
>existing drafts, or both? If working from existing stuff, how do we get
>the original material from GDW?

I think the best thing to do is work out a list of subjects and submit it
to GDW. Then they can tell us what they're willing to listen to. Saves us
doing a lot of work that will just be disregarded anyway.

>It would be nice to have some direction and guidelines from GDW. For
>example, I'd hate to spend a month developing rules for netrunning only
>to discover that they don't want that sort of thing in MT:TNE as it makes
>it look too cyberpunkish. We need a little boundary criteria, don't you
>think?

That would be nice, yes.

>With the regular TML PBEM on summer hiatus and other RPG activities
>currently in cold-storage, I'll volunteer.
>
>Assuming I get majority approval (and some contact info from Scott), I'll
>contact Loren right after I get back from vacation (I should be back on
>June 29th)and see if I can get some design guidelines for the new rules.

Good.

>And finally, I promise to make sure that GDW gets all the appropriate
>names listed in the final product, and SPELLS THEM RIGHT!! :^)

Good luck, mate ;-).



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "A  subsector  official  pompously states that the
        subsector  armed  forces  have  four Kinunir class
        ships in service,  each with enough troop strength
        to put down any military operations that threathen
        the peace of the Imperium."

                        ---Adventure 1, The Kinunir

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4327
Subject: Robots at TL7
Date: Mon, 08 Jun 92 15:03:56 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR.TEK.COM>


Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM> writes:
> I'm willing to give it a shot.  I'd like to work with James, but unless
> his work schedule changes, I suspect there's vanishing small chance he'll
> have the time to contribute.

Argh. Life sucks (sometimes). While I have spent most of my time
programming advanced software systems, I have a little experience with
TL7 robot programming from college, where I took a robot programming
class. We programmed a small (24", one-armed) robot and got a good
overview of mostly modern robot systems and technology. Suffice to say
robot programming is still in the stone age, moreso even than
conventional programming.

Off the top of my head, here's some of the problems with TL7 robots:

touch sensors
	dynamic range: human tactile and internal sensors can
	distinguish delicate forces on the order of 10e-5 Newtons to
	crushing weights of 10e3 Newtons, using a log scale. Force
	sensors on TL7 robots are usually linearly scaled in a narrow
	band engineered for a specific task. My robot had notoriously
	flaky microswitches to gauge "force".  Usually we programmed
	it to squeeze four clicks past switch close and hoped it was
	strong enough to grasp the object without crunching it or
	having the motor slip and get out of sync with the program.

	pattern recognition & perception: humans have millions of
	tactile sensors on their bodies which are all coordinated with a
	pattern-recognition system that can distinguish the broken edge
	of an egg shell from steel net. Robots are typically limited to
	a few dozen channels of sensor data.

visual sensors
	computer vision is barely out of its infancy. Often embedded
	sensors in the environment are a good idea - like office robots
	using a magnetic stripe embedded in the floor.

manipulators
	force: human muscle groups, made from collections of tiny
	contracting fibers, can exert from 10e-5 to 10e3 Newtons of
	force in fine gradations, depending on the number of coordinated
	units. Again, TL7 robots are usually linearly scaled in a narrow
	range.

	coordination: muscles are arranged in groups and feedback
	mechanisms regulate and coordinate their force signal by
	comparing sensor data with the goal in real time. Humans can
	regulate force feedback in about 1/5 to 1/10 a second for
	unpracticed tasks and as little as 1/30 second for highly
	practiced and programmed tasks.

	range of motion: muscle systems can exert different levels of
	force depending on the particular segment of their range of
	motion - for example, the bicep is strongest when the forearm
	and upper arm are near a 90 degree angle, and weaker at the
	extremes.

	blockage: Also, the muscle controller unit is inherently
	cognizant of the range of motion the limb is capable of
	depending on its physical parameters, location, and environment
	(through integrated sensor data). If the limb is asked to do
	something impossible, this becomes evident in the sensor data.

Robot programming
	guided: a robot with adequate sensors can be taught to record a
	particular set of motions by being walked through it, either
	programmatically or physically. It can then replay the
	remembered motions any number of times. Spray-painting robots
	are often taught in this way.

	programmed: a robot may be directly programmed in a robot
	programming language. These languages are moderately arcane and
	while they perform the basic deed, are not particularly
	inspiring.  Basic problems exist, like:
	
		reaching the limits of the range of motion
			(and still thinking you're moving)
		not taking into account how heavy the object is
			you're moving (arm droops)
		failure to realize your force varies with position
		poor real-time response
		lack of high-level pattern recognition
		no innate integration between sensors and manipulators
		poor ability to resync with the real world if you slip
		bumping into unexpected objects
		dealing with anything unexpected, in general
		failure to realize that the limbs themselves have mass
			and take space (it's easy to write a program
			that doesn't take into account that the item of
			interest is three feet down a narrow well and
			that your arm must reach straight down)
		mapping cartesian coordinates to robot coordinates
			(ie. position (3,5,-1) corresponds to shoulder
			joint 350 deg. Mark 27 degrees, elbow joint -90
			degrees, etc. tough from both a mathematical and
			practical standpoint - try and move a robot arm
			at a constant speed along an arbitary straight
			line in real time! Hah! I dare you!)
		combine the last two (limb space consumption with mapping)
			and you have a really major disaster, since
			every point on the robot arm must be tracked,
			which animal systems handle innately.
		programming doesn't lend itself well to dealing with
			large ranges of logrithmic, fuzzy data with
			near-instant common feedback systems.
		much of the work involves dealing with multi-dimensional
			analog information that naturally should be
			integrated or differentiated, items which are
			unnatural or expensive to perform modern
			software systems.

Well, that's a modestly outdated state of the art. Robot systems sorely
lack 3-1/2 billion years of evolution of sophisticated systems,
subsytems, networks, and goal-oriented integration systems. At TL7-8 We
are exposed to the white-box view of the internals of how all the
systems work, a totally different view than our internal experiential
views suggest.

James

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4328
Date: 08 Jun 92 18:57:31 EDT
From: Chuck Gannon <chuck_gannon@private.locale>
Subject: Roughneck Class

(Dear James; please post this!  Thanks!)

Dear Scott (and other interested parties);

Your response to the Roughneck class suggests that it
 would probably be wise for me to at least offer an
explanation/concept background to this design (yes, it was mine).
Hopefully, this will make the craft `fit' a little better into
the Traveller  framework, as you see it.

Firstly, I agree wholeheartedly with your general assertion that
the Roughneck is (at best) ungainly and bizarre; at first it
might seem like the problem it is supposed to fix is smaller than
the problem it presents.  However, I offer the following text as
a conceptual precursor:

(this was originally supposed to be included in the supplement
that eventually became A:V.  It was not included, I have since learned.)

<<Laruusalii is a failing world that is trying to maintain an
industrial-level society.  One of the major new industries in the
Laruusalii system involves harvesting complex hydrocarbons from
the system's largest gas giant.  Huge wildcatter rigs gather vast
quantities of liquid propane and acetylene in the middle levels
of the planet's crushing atmosphere.  This new resource has al-
lowed Laruusalii to continue manufacturing plastics and to export
these fluids to other worlds which have no access to petrochemi-
cals (for the similar purpose of producing plastics; my parenthetical
addition).>>

Note that the point is not petrochemicals as combustibles,
but as raw stock for creation of plastics.  If combustibles were
all they wanted, they'd probably just grab the hydrogen and
leave.  (Although the standing rules on tech level division suggest
that it is not possible to burn hydrogen productively [as energy
source other than CryoRkt] prior to TL 7-8.)  However, I did some
research regarding the creation of plastics and my `Kentucky
windage' call was that without naturally available petrochemicals
in liquid form, plastics could not be made reliably and at a de-
pendable qc standard.  (Oh, it would be possible to cobble up an
intricate system for this at TL 4, I estimate, but it would be
VERY expensive--and precision controls would always be prob-
lematical).

So the point is simply this; in staying with the rules of Travel-
ler (which is always a GOOD idea for freelancers to do; we have
less leeway than in-house folks), I decided to
create a craft which would :

1) provide a way to access these key compounds.
2) provide the setting for an unusual adventure.
3) --and-- display (by its very nature) the bizarre, marginal,
and even-ill advised rube goldbergesque solutions that desperate
people are likely to come up with.
^MMy reasoning regarding `desperate need' of plastic is essentially
as follows;  low tech worlds with hostile environments are going
to be perpetually concerned with wear and tear on atmosphere
seals.  Cast iron is well and good, but in the final analysis,
most structures have `holes' in them that permit controlled in-
terface with the environment.  That means gaskets, seals, etc.
Most hostile worlds do not have rubber-tree hydroponics gardens
at the start of Hard Times, so that's no answer (and probably
wouldn't be, since rubber and many hostile atmospheres would not
get along very well--or for very long.).

This means that, at lower tech levels where advanced composite chemistry is not
do-able, some kind of plastic is probably the key.
Without it, seals will disintegrate, life support becoming more
costly and marginal.  That steepens the community's angle of de-
scent into oblivion.  In short, if you don't have acess to seals,
or a GREAT overpressure system (with energy to burn), you MUST have
the seals.

Therein is the logic for the need.  The logic for the answer?
Well, a lot of it is in the following passages (once again; I have since learned
that this did not make it into A:V.)

<<The complex hydrocarbons that the wildcatters harvest are cre-
ated by the interaction of the atmospheric gases and radiation
from the system's primary.  But in order to gather these
hydrocarbons, the rig must make passes deep inside the atmo-
sphere, down to levels where the external atmospheric pressure
approaches 10 bars (this would be the extreme case; usually
about 4-7).  At this level, these complex hydrocarbons
begin to condense as vapor or rain.  The rig harvests this high
octane rain with huge outboard scoops, storing the collected
fluids in a large central tank.  This tank can also be used for
cargo storage, thanks to its fore-and-aft bay doors.>>

And, as a ready reference for our discussion, a partial listing
of the (questionable) components of the Roughneck, along with
all the notes

Laruusaliin Roughneck-class Frontier Fuel Harvester

POWER: 3/6, ImpIntCmbst=18MW, Duration=2/6

LOCO: 12/24, HiPerfRkt=1G/7020Tt, Duration=20min, Top=1000kph,
 Cruise=750kph, NOE= n/a

OTHER: Cargo/Fuel Storage Tanks= 650Kl, Cargo=25.6 Kl,
 CryoFuel=1404 Kl, HydrocarbFuel=36Kl, scoops,
^MNotes: The Roughneck is a low-tech spacecraft of unusual design.
Its purpose is to collect complex hydrocarbons from the atmo-
spheres of large gas giants.
The Roughneck looks like a squashed sphere.  It customarily be-
gins its mission with an empty Fuel Storage cargo hold, thereby
reducing takeoff weight to 2835 tons.  Therefore, lift-off ac-
celeration is approximately 1.5 gees, meaning that the ship can
lift off even from large worlds that do not allow it to use a
Lift-Assisted take-off (for instance, airless worlds).
Once in space, the Roughneck travels out to the desired gas
giant.  Speed is of the essence, since the powerplant burns the
same precious hydrocarbons that the ship must gather for resale.
Arriving at the gas giant, the Roughneck will rendezvous with a
support craft (often a space station), where its cryogenic rocket
fuel is replenished and its lift envelope (also called the "air
bag") is connected.  The lift envelope is a deflated dirigible of
immense size (over 4 million cubic meters of volume).  As the
Roughneck approaches the gas giant's atmosphere, it begins to
collect hydrogen in its scoops and uses this to inflate the lift
envelope.
The lift envelope is useless at these higher altitudes, but be-
comes increasingly useful as the Roughneck descends into the gas
giant's cloud layer.  There, atmospheric pressure begins to rise
dramatically and the composition of the atmosphere becomes more
dense.  At full inflation, the lift envelope provides 3321 tons
of lift: more than enough to keep the Roughneck from sinking fur-
ther.  At this point, the ship begins moving toward areas where
`propane rain' is anticipated.  Runoff vents and folds in the top
of the lift envelope gather more of this `rain' than could be ac-
complished with the scoops alone, resulting in a rapid ability to
fill all 650 kiloliters of fuel storage space.
Tanks full, the Roughneck boosts back up to the higher reaches of
the atmosphere, where it pumps its collected fuel into three ex-
ternal drop tanks.  Small tenders remove these drop tanks, pump
cryogenic fuel into the main rocket tanks, and emplace new drop
tanks.  The tenders then take the full tanks back up to orbit.
The primary danger in a wildcatter's occupation is the need to
de-ice the ship, which can be a risky proposition.  Another com-
mon source of danger are the titanic lightning storms that occur
in the atmospheres of large gas giants; a single bolt is com-
pletely capable of disabling the ship and igniting its fuel
stocks.
The Roughneck utilizes a TL 7 VTOL hull and TL 7 control com-
ponents.  This makes the construction of each craft a painstaking
effort for TL 6 worlds, which have to fabricate special, purpose-
built architectures for each model.
The statistics for the lift envelope are:  Inflated Displacement:
20000, Inlfated Volume: 4.05 million Kl, Net Lift: 3321 tons,
Wgt: 2025 tons, Deflated Volume: 26,730 Kl (fits in a 2000 ton
carrier), Price: 4.05 MCr.
The Roughneck incorporates elements of the Pre-Gravitic
Spacecraft design supplement (from HARD TIMES) and the Aircraft
Design supplement (presented in COACC).

Okay.  It's bizarre.  It's different.  And to game designers
looking to sell something that stands out, that's often enough.
However, I have tried to make the operations of the RN class fea-
sible (if awkward).  Unfortunately, there was not enough room
available to go into all the details.  (Please remember that when
you write for publication, you always have an editor/developer
looking over your shoulder.  If you make lengthy technical des-
criptions essential, they're likely to pass on your whole idea.)
So here is some additional background that never made the cut:

Firstly, the tenders mentioned in the Notes (re: servicing and
removing fuel payload from the RN) are not TL 15s (or at least,
they don't have to be; the presence of the TL 15 XT is not my 
contribution).  Any capable hull can do--including other
TL 6, cryorkt powered designs.  This is in fact what I envi-
sioned; a commercial space infrastructure ala' the type proposed
by von Braun/Ley/Bonestell.  Old tech CAN do the trick; it's just
not very flashy and it involves more time and planning.
That same old tech is what I envision supporting the transit op-
erations, as well as the on-site harvesting logistical tail.  Ob-
viously, the short duration of the power plant necessitates short
missions and rare journeys away from the operational site.  Most
of the time, the RN class would be moored at a larger space sta-
tion in orbit near the GG or at one of the Trojan points.  It
would be powered down until used--this because it's too expensive
in terms of petrochem to operate and to save wear on the vehicle.

Note also that in this `dedicated support' version, the in-
flatable envelope would not have to last more than one mission
before being submitted for repair and refit (or removed from the
program for cannibalization).   I also envisioned the envelope to
be comprised of many dozens of independent bladders, rather than
a single huge piece.  But the design requirement was essentially
the same and required less room (and commentary) to do it this
way (with essentially the same results).

Lastly, some observations on the mission of the craft.  Whatever
(highly flawed) knowledge I have of engineering largely arose
from an area that I DO have an appreciable amount of formal
training in; planetary science.  Using Saturn as a model, let's
see if there isn't in fact an appropriate operating environment
for the RN.

(see continuation of message; next email)

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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Date: Wed Jun 10 21:00:41 PDT 1992
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #360: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
4329  08-Jun-92 Chuck Gannon      Roughneck Class, continued << (continuation o
4330  08-Jun-92 PPUGLIESE@PimaCC. DGP/ MT Journal #3 << I understand that MT Jo
4331  08-Jun-92 "Haiquan Dai"     Traveller Stuff for Trade or Sale << Hi all, 
4332  09-Jun-92 anaylor@mihi.une. Helping Lorin <Sniff !> << Aw no-one asked me
4333  09-Jun-92 "Lord Krieg"      TNE << I "attended" a conference on America O
4334  09-Jun-92 pedro@eltn.utwent neuro-weapon interface << #1 I have a questio
4335  09-Jun-92 Lesley Grant      STORY Imperial Advisor part 3 of 6 << Ynno hu
4336  09-Jun-92 richard@agora.rai Re: Rallying the troops... << <Scott> :I am h
4337  09-Jun-92 PHB100@PSUVM.PSU. Re: (4327) Robots at TL7 << James says: >Argh
4338  09-Jun-92 Robert S. Dean    Submission Guidelines for TNE?? << The follow
4339  09-Jun-92 Robert S. Dean    Re: Rallying the troops for TNE/TDR II << Tea
4340  09-Jun-92 BARANSKI@VEAMF1.N TNE Suggestions << I'm excited to hear that G
4341  09-Jun-92 LTG3878@SUMMA.TAM Jump Drives revisited. << Some of you may rec
4342  09-Jun-92 christofer bertan Another Silly Vehicle? << Along the Silly Veh
4343  09-Jun-92 bryan borich      GDW reply << Item 3888463 92/06/09 21:08 From
4344  10-Jun-92 Hans Rancke-Madse Micellaneous << "Lord Krieg" writes: > How ab

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4329
From: Chuck Gannon <chuck_gannon@private.locale>
Subject: Roughneck Class, continued

(continuation of RN class discussion)

Problem of no oxy?  Hmmm... maybe there isn't much O2 in the LGG
itself, but to be honest, we could find some here, too.  There
are okay proportions of methane, ethane, ammonia in the atmo-
sphere.  However, why burden ourselves getting oxy here?  Let's
visit a moon; Mimas will do.  Standing ice known to exist.  Don't
want to go to a gravity well?  Fine; rings A,B, C are thought to
mostly be comprised of water.  Average size of particulate matter
in rings; several m3 in volume.  Water aplenty, meaning oxy
aplenty.  And given reflective properties, JPL remains convinced
that this is WATER ice, not ammonia or other frozen gases.
^MNo ring?  Well, there's a matter of some interest; there's reason
to suspect that many LGGs will have them.  Jupiter does--not
nearly so spectacular and visible as Saturns, but for purposes of
tanking up on good old O2, they are practically speaking of in-
finite size.

And of course, the RN doesn't go to the well itself; it's the
duty of the faithful tenders to play Gunga Din.  Okay, so we have
the magical element for combustion and respiration.   How do we get
it to our internal combustion engines?  Diffused through the
ventilation system in pre-measured amounts.  Method?  Store the
oxygen in liquid form (either in the cryo tanks, or in the main
tanks prior to harvesting) and allow a small rate of sublimation;
more than enough for a mission which on the average will be less
than a day in duration--start to finish.
Now, dare we go down into the depths of the gas giant?  And
with a non-rigid envelope?

Well, according to the folks at JPL (who I've consulted numerous
times) there are two tricks to this.  One, you WANT a non-rigid
structure: IF you run into a bad gust (and you will at some
time), anything short of a hardened hull is going to break--
unless it can give and be the willow in the wind (as opposed to
the splintering oak).

Two; the envelope has got to have a constant capability for con-
trollable, dynamic shifts in content.  That is, you've got to be
able to reduce or increase its gas payload at will and quickly. 
In a Jovian atmosphere, this is less of a problem, since there's
no shortage of helium.  However, if you CAN't do this, the rigid
frame will buckle under the increased atmospheric pressure and 
collapse.  A flexible, multi-celled structure allows for the 
dynamic maintenance of optimum pressure and lift.

However, now we get into the problem of meteriological trauma--
and there's no shortage of it in an LGG.  However, where there
are winds, there are lees.  Not for long, and still turbulent by
terrestrial standards, but lees that are survivable.

This is where the skill of wildcatting comes in; knowing how to
spot a developing lee that also shows sign of being in the vicin-
ity of some propane rain.  Then you have to find a gentle (com-
paratively) approach route, make your passes, and still leave be-
fore the hurricane comes back to take your face off.  Dangerous?
Yes.  Undoable?  Not at all.  In many ways, the flirting-with-
danger-aspect of the job is why I named it wildcatting; rough-
necks on the rigs in Texas are my mental model (I've known several
and seen them at work).

How bad is LGG turbulence?  Let's consider our worst-case example
(known): Jupiter.  Highest recorded wind velocities are 163 m s-
1.  However, lesser atmospheric density lessens the impact of
those winds.  As you go lower, atmospheric density increases--but
JPL studies show that wind velocity lessens as pressure increases
(or rather, as you get closer to planet `core' and the atmosphere
becomes more dense).  But most importantly, there are whole zones
(equator-following bands) on Jupiter where the average speed is
at 26 m s-1.  Calms or lees in such regions can fall into the
single digits.

Not a calm environment, but also not the monolithic tornado of
vaporous death that many post-pulp SF populists have represented.
It--like our own environment--has extremes; wildcatters simply
must stay in those areas of extreme placidity.
What if the inflatable envelope takes damage?  First, it would be
compartmentalized for control (and damage limitation).  But if
situations  went beyond that, then that's when the cryorockets
kick in and the mission is aborted; everybody gets the express
elevator ride up out of the clouds.  There, in the diaphonous
outer reaches of the atmosphere, tender/tugs hover, ready to mate
with the RN and tow it off-station for repair/refit--and a good
scolding for a captain that was either too unskilled (or unlucky)
to make a safe run.

Are there problems with all this?  SURE THERE ARE--and my per-
sonal opinion is that the BIGGEST problem is that any community
would ever NEED anything so badly as to be forced into such an
atrocious and costly way of getting it.  But I submit that this
problem actually lies with some of Traveller's basic mechanisms.
I know; this sounds like heresy from a priest, but here's my
thoughts on the matter:

FIRST: why the devil are so many people living in such absolutely
useless systems, anyway?  The subsector generation system IS easy
to use--ease being one of its great appeals and a major aid to
the initial  popularity of Traveller--but it ignores a number of
basic economic realities.  The most basic of which is; places
which already have air you can breathe, water you can drink, and
food you can eat are going to get the overwhelming amount of com-
mercial investment and population.  Those environments which of-
fer resources that can be `converted' to meet these needs without
undue hassle will be a strong second.  However, any community
which needs to invest heavily just to provide for its ongoing
basic environmental needs either has to be indispensable to some-
body's (national, personal, corporate) interest, sitting on top
of the interstellar equivalent of the South African diamond
mines, or is just plain masochistic.  Full life support is ex-
pensive and makes all in the environment hostage to the smallest
of errors or mishaps.
However, the Traveller UPP generation rules have given us the
universe we know, love, and vex at.  And in this universe, such
things as the RN are bound to occur.  People need what people
need (like pressure seals) and they will go to any lengths to get
it.  And enlightened decisions are not always made, nor are better
options always available (for proof of this, the history 
of US space flight--is an often embarrassingly apt example).
The RN is indeed a rube goldberg contraption; it is SUPPOSED to
strike players at first as bizarre, comical, eccentric.  But
hopefully, a referee who strings the thread of Hard Times through
an adventure with such a craft (easily done via its NPC crew;
these are likely to be desperate men trying to make a living for
families that teeter on the edge of environmental extinction),
may also bring in shadings of the desperation of the times and
eventually, the sense that war is horrid folly that produces only
greater folly in its ashen aftermath.  The RN--and the failing
community it is trying to support--is an incarnation of that
follow-on folly.
SECOND: Given what I feel to be the errors of the UPP distribu-
tion and what it says (or rather, fails to say) about the
logistics and fiscal realities of colonization and survivability
in alien environments, there is the follow-on problem of travel
and commerce within the Imperium.  How DID all those hi-pop in-
dustrial worlds EVER feed themselves?  Answer; they COULDN't, not
and be economic powerhouses.  Anybody remember SOYLENT GREEN?
(Sorry; I forget Sheckley's original title.) [Make Room, Make Room --
James] Just feeding those masses would cripple industrial endeavors.
Logically, there would have to be an exchange basis--finished goods
exported for massive food imports. Bulk haulers as big as battleships;
modular containers each the size of the QE2 strung together on the belly
of a jump carrier--just to send nutritive additives to the Hi-pop world
this week (the bulk matter of the food could be produced locally without
a great deal of cost).
The notion of a lot of little independent jump ships hopping all
over in search of fun and adventure is pleasant, very PC-
empowering, and sold the game--but it just don't jive with the
framework of the universe as presented.
As a result, in Hard Times, worlds are not going to have built-in
self-sufficiency guarantees.  Everything points to the opposite,
if we are going to try to make economic sense out of the whole
mess.  (BTW, my high praise to whoever it was on TML that ob-
served that the TCS taxation rate was so extreme as to make
planets flee screaming from the thought of Imperial membership.
Reduction by 80-90 % produces a believable sum--and a believable
number of fleet assets.  Also, let's `fess up; the campaign sup-
port rules in both TCS and STRIKER are highly optimistic.  Why?
Because a reality that would prevent players from being able to
have lots of combats would defeat the purpose of the game itself.
In short, the numbers in those systems are DESIGNED to feed con-
flict, not be painstakingly realistic.  How's that for a
prolonged digression?)
..RM65/
The point of all this?  Without a high emphasis on self-
sufficiency many worlds are going to have to scramble to find 
ways to meet their needs on their own.  Planets without access to 
any complex organic materials are going to be in dire straits.  
Pre TL-7 worlds are going to be even worse off, since their tech
nology does not allow very sophisticated molecular shuffling when 
it comes to non-metallics, organics, and complex hydrocarbons.  
Any such efforts will be expensive, crude, and subject to poor 
QC.  Too poor for essential environmental seals, at any rate.

So worlds with all these limitations are going to have to either 
a) trade for what they need, or b) make it themselves.  Choice c 
is a great deal more grim.  In many areas, option a) might not 
exist.  In that event, how do they pursue option b?  The basic 
answer is to get access to the most complex hydrocarbon you can 
and (with lots of pressure, trial and error, and crossed fingers) 
squeeze some precious plastic out of it.  The key, of course, is 
to start with something that is not merely a hydrocarbon, but a 
petrochemical.  This is NOT a big deal once you reach TL 7, where 
a number of advanced chemical reactant processes become avail
able.  But to someone with Korean War-Era technology,
petrochemical raw stock is a must-have first building block.

This makes the evolution of something like the RN class in
evitable.  If radioactives are locally available, the design can 
be altered to a much more satisfactory, normal-looking result.  
But that's not what I wanted to do; I wanted to represent a real 
last-gasp ship design from a seal-using world which already had 
two strikes against it; no in-system access to organics OR
fissionables.  

Many such worlds would simply die out--many that depend on the RN 
class would, eventually.  But assuming that humans in general do 
not willingly go gentle into that deep night, I set myself the 
task of finding a way to take a stab at meeting the needs of  
such a community.

The RN class is only one such answer.  There ARE more elegant 
solutions, but now we're getting into politics as well as 
engineering ideals.  The optimum is not always what get's sup
ported.  And that's what I wanted to present; a 
museum-piece display of desperate engineering.  It is only ill
- -advised if the colony dies off AND they had a better option (like
 en masse emigration).

In closing, allow me to say that I really enjoy looking at TML
and I regret that I don't have the time to participate regularly.
However, I always try to do a quick browse once a week--and am
always interested and excited by the stuff I see here.

Charles E. (Chuck) Gannon


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4330
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 92 19:47 MST
From: PPUGLIESE@PimaCC.Pima.edu
Subject: DGP/ MT Journal #3

I understand that MT Journal #3 is finally out. Does anyone else
out there still have a subscription with DGP. My last mailing label
said MT4 but DGP said #3 would be a double issue & that would close
out my sub. Well, I have yet to get the mag! Anyone have any info?
Or has DGP just decided to blow it off like they did with MT?

thanks,
	PHIL
	

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4331
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 92 22:49:29 -0400
From: "Haiquan Dai" <hd@reef.cis.ufl.edu>
Subject: Traveller Stuff for Trade or Sale


Hi all,

I have some extra Traveller stuff, if you are interested please email.  List
below is what I currently have.

Traveller Box set [Books 0,1,2,3, and understanding traveller] with box :-)
Double Adventure 2
Best of JTAS 3
Traveller Book
The Traveller Adventure
Rebellion Megatraveller suppl.


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4332
From: anaylor@mihi.une.oz.au (Adam Naylor)
Subject: Helping Lorin <Sniff !>
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 17:36:31 EST

Aw no-one asked me to help, I am really hurt ........Just cause the other
guys post more stuff (In a readable format that makes sense) is no reason
to exclude me ..............

Seriously maybe someone could arrange to have a site or email address where
all ideas we would like to see for Traveller 3# (Bigger and bolder than
the original) etc be posted . Then Loren could have a squizz at it and
check it out . Also Loren (?)  has access to all of us as playtesters !

I mean I would do *anything* for a chance to contribute material to the
new system, especially in the area of character generation (Its all I 
seam to be able to get mt players to do) and have actual input on the
matter from the GDW staff (as with Loren) . Think about this guys, we
could actually make the game even better (which isnt hard in a way) . Its
a great system, I just feel that GDW could perhaps have spent a wee bit
more time checking it out before publication, but then again running a
company with so many products its understandible why its hard for them to
do so .........

GDW should seriously consider getting internet and email for their company
cause there is a dam lot of people out here that could make valuable
contributions, and we wouldnt charge anything . They could also get 
mammoth puiblic feedback without having to hire some yuppie with a
business management degree telling them whose buying what and what they
think of it .

To all they guys who posted me stuff, thanks, I will get back to you
its just that my mailer has been overun

Please, Please, Please Loren convince GDW to let us contribute directly
to them, cause alot more people will, if they can via email (instantaneous
and often very cheap) . Please tell em internet & email is the way to go

Thanks for listening to this station

this is james T kirk signing off 

And a big thankyou to Loren for discovering us TMLers



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4333
Date: 9 Jun 92 01:54:00 PST
From: "Lord Krieg" <cvadsaav@CSUPomona.Edu>
Subject: TNE

I "attended" a conference on America Online in which Lester Smith talked about
new GDW stuff.  The following information is what I found:

- -- The game uses the Twilight: 2000 2nd Edition system, but with a d20 instead
of a d10.

- -- The infamous virus does not affect the Spinward Marches or Lucan's territroy.No explanation was given of how the virus spread across the rest of the 
Imperium, and I've pretty much given up hope that they will manage a remotely
plausible explanation of such an unlikely occurence.

- -- TNE is set 80 years in the future (in relation to what year, I don't know)
and covers the "reexploration of the galaxy"

My impression of the virus is that they needed it to get out of the hole they
are digging with Hard Times.  The GDW folks seems to have forgotten that the
Imperium has already had a 16 year civil war earlier in its history, with a
Frontier War at the same time for good measure.  The Civil War began under
much the same circumstances as the current rebellion, and the most realistic
outcome for the Rebellion is that in a few more years somebody will win and the
Imperium will be back to normal--after all, that's what happened before.

I'm afraid that I just don't care for the virus idea.  There are plenty of
things that could destroy the Imperium that would be highly unlikely, whereas
the virus theory is just plain impossible.

How about:
- -Lucan builds a Death Star or twelve and systematically blows up every HiPop
world outside his domain?
- -A previously unknown race appears, demolishes the Imperium, and then dies of
of some common Human disease?
- -The people of the Imperium discover that Strephon actually spent the past 6
years in the shower, and they all die of heart attacks simultaneously?
                            
                                    Lord Krieg

Internet:  cvadsaav@csupomona.edu
America Online:  Empr Krieg


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4334
Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1992 12:19:31
From: pedro@eltn.utwente.nl (Pedro A.C. Tavares)
Subject: neuro-weapon interface

    #1
I have a question about TL levels in Megatraveller...  I posted it to the
TML some time ago, I got several replies but nobody really answeared it.
I understand that the histories of 2300 and MT are pretty different.  But at
what TL would you place 2300ad.  Just an aprox guess.

    #2
One of my players proposed a kind of neuro-weapons system.  What he wants
sounds pretty close to a neuronal computer interface (that I heard of
somewhere) connected to a weapons system instead of a standard computer.  I
don't have any reference to a device of this kind but I came up with a sort
of modified Subdermacomp.  This connects via a short range radio signal to a
plug touching the neck (or somewhere else) and throught this plug to a
interface box that manages the signals from weapon gyroscopes (calibrated to
indicate where the weapon is pointing at) from cameras (visual , ir, light
intensified, ...) and from the brain sensors.   Could you tell me if this is
within 2300ad technology and what kind of price tag I should put on it?

====================================
Pedro A.C. Tavares
Faculteit der Technische Natuurkunde
Twente Universiteit
pedro@eltn.utwente.nl
====================================


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4335
From: Lesley Grant <lgrant@maths.tcd.ie>
Subject: STORY Imperial Advisor part 3 of 6
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 13:16:59 BST


     Ynno  hummed  a  tune  as he came in and  sat  in  his  desk
opposite  from Clare. He sorted his morning work into order  with
many  extra  flourishes. Clare smiled warmly at  him.  "Well  you
obviously made it home."
     "I don't remember most of it but I was there when I woke  up
this morning."
     Sarion  waltzed  around his partition playing  an  imaginary
instrument.  Ynno  smiled good humouredly and waited for  him  to
finish and clapped sarcastically. Clare giggled.
     "Well what are you going to do next", he asked.
     Ynno  looked  thoughtful. "I hadn't thought. I'm  not  quite
over it yet."
     Clare leaned forward and handed Sarion a facsimile which  he
passed to Ynno. "Concert?" asked Ynno.
     "Good  choice!" said Sarion. "It isn't too intimate but  you
want  to woo her slowly. Let her bring someone if she might  feel
more  comfortable.  Better  yet  invite  both  herself  and   Old
Battleaxe. Make it appear even more innocent. Get good seats  and
flowers for each."
     "Hey! Who's courting her? Me or you?" laughed Ynno.
     "Well,  you never know", said Sarion. "Someone like that.  A
charming  personality almost too hard to resist..." Ynno  growled
at  him and Sarion winked and strode back behind  his  partition.
Clare smiled on wistfully.

                              * * *

     Ynno was still whistling three days later when he came  into
the office. "Good morning!", he called to Clare.
     "Ynno",  she said soberly. "I've sorted the morning's  mail.
You  have  something  in  your cubbyhole."  He  bounced  in  that
direction.  "Ynno", she said warningly. He turned with  a  raised
eyebrow. "It's not good news." 
     He  went over pensively and took the one sheet of paper  and
read  it, crestfallen. Sarion arrived in just after him and  came
to  a quick halt at seeing Ynno. Ynno handed him the paper.  "She
said  no",  he  said. Sarion quickly read  it.  Then  again  more
slowly. "She said it in an open interdepartmental letter."
     Sarion held up a finger. "Remember you invited Old Battleaxe
and Bethula. It was a communique to Amalgamate, you would  expect
them to reply in open. Look", he held the bottom of the letter up
to  him. "It was written by a secretary. It probably  fell  under
Old  Battleaxe's nose and she just told some secretary to send  a
no back."
     "But..."  said  Ynno.  Clare handed him a  piece  of  paper.
"What's this?"
     "Her home address.Write to _her_." Sarion laid his finger on
the side of his nose.
    Ynno smiled weakly but still looked anxious.
     He  looked  anxious  for the next couple of  days  and  then
didn't  come  in  at  all. Sarion and  Clare  found  him  in  his
apartment  during  lunchtime looking miserable.  Clare  tried  to
comfort him and Sarion read the letter expressionlessly.
     "She said no", whispered Ynno. "Very no. No way. Not ever."
     "It doesn't look that bad to me", muttered Sarion.
     "It is very clear in Imperial phraseology", Ynno  explained.
"So she knew I would understand. It is an absolute no."
     "Tactless bitch", he replied.
     Ynno  ignored Clare and glared at Sarion. "No, phrased  like
an imperial princess."
     "She's still a tactless bitch."
     "She must know", he mumbled.
     "Know what?" asked Sarion.
     "That  I'm  not a man but a machine!"  shouted  Ynno.  "What
else."
     "If  she  cared it wouldn't make a difference",  said  Clare
quietly.
     "She doesn't care!" exclaimed Sarion.
     "I can see that", screamed Ynno.
     "Sarion, you're not helping", scolded Clare.
     "She doesn't care", repeated Sarion. "She never will. Forget
her.  Forget  she ever existed. She's not good  enough  for  you.
You'll get over it."
     Ynno  glared  at him, chest rising and falling  rapidly.  He
just shook his head.
     Clare  squeezed  Ynno's limp hand. "It  happens",  she  said
quietly.  "Occasionally  someone  meets  someone  and   something
clicks.You know that this person is _the_ person.No one else will
do.  No matter how long it takes..." She looked intently  at  him
but he didn't seem to be listening.
     "And  waste the rest of you life?" Sarion had his  hands  on
his  hips and a defensive stance. "Ruin your chance of  happiness
for someone who could not care less?"
     "Once  you've  met that person, that's it. You'll  never  be
happy again", Clare countered fiercely. And back to Ynno. "If you
love her, love her from afar. It's easier to cope."
     "That  doesn't sound like very healthy advice to  me",  said
Sarion. "Take a few days off. Sit and stew over it. Pour yourself
a couple of good drinks. You'll get over it." Ynno stared at  the
table.  Sarion sighed and moved toward the door. "Come on  Clare,
lunchtime is nearly over. We've got to get back to the office."
     "I'm staying", she said.
     "We do have a job we're expected to do."
     "I said I am staying", she said resolutely.
     He  muttered  back  something she couldn't  hear  and  left,
closing the door behind him.
     Clare held Ynno's hand and for a moment looked as if she was
going to say something. But she remained silent and just held him
all afternoon.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4336
From: richard@agora.rain.COM (Richard Johnson)
Subject: Re: Rallying the troops...
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 5:34:15 PDT


<Scott>
:I am honored that Loren Wiseman asked for our help.  Hot damn!  :-)
: etc.

Who's aiming for Trade 'n Commerce?  I'd like to work on that stuff.

I'll pop the lid on this can of worms by asking what we'd like to see
in a good trading system.  Partial list (append ? to end of each):
   subsidization
   standardization
   speculation
   consignments
   elasticity of demand
   customs
   differentiation between "surface" and "orbit" cargoes
   smuggling rules
   piracy rules
   salvage rules

And do wo want the small guy to have a ghost of a chance against the
megacorps?  And can someone give me a short, quick summary of his or
her feel for the overall commerce "ambience" in TNE? 
- -- 
Richard Johnson      richard@agora.rain.com
Qui custodii ipsos custodes?

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4337
Date:    Tue, 9 Jun 92 09:47 EDT
From: <PHB100@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: (4327) Robots at TL7

James says:

>Argh. Life sucks (sometimes). While I have spent most of my time
>programming advanced software systems, I have a little experience with
>TL7 robot programming from college, where I took a robot programming
>class. We programmed a small (24", one-armed) robot and got a good
>overview of mostly modern robot systems and technology. Suffice to say
>robot programming is still in the stone age, moreso even than
>conventional programming.
>
>Off the top of my head, here's some of the problems with TL7 robots:
>
<many problems deleted>
>
Holy smokes!  Kind of makes me glad I didn't take any robot courses  8+)
I guess that 3-1/2 billion years makes quite a difference, eh?

>James
>

BTW, has anyone read James P. Hogan's _Code_of_the_Lifemaker_ ?  All about
human's finding and interacting with a robot civilization on Titan.  Of course
those robots were created by an alien protoplasm race, but due to accidents and
evolution, the robots developed sentience and a civilization on a fuedal level.
I enjoyed it a lot.

If you aren't interested in the interaction part, read the prolog at least,
which explains how the civilization developed from a self-directed (but not
sentient) mobile factory/starship.  I found it verry interesting.

P.
- ----------
In the dark no one can hear the color of your eyes.
Disclaimer:  This is me.  Do I sound like anyone else?

Paul Baughman          PHB100 @ psuvm.psu.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4338
Date:     Tue, 9 Jun 92 10:28:16 EDT
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Submission Guidelines for TNE??

The following forwarded from GEnie for your perusal, in response to a question
about getting the TNE submission guidelines...


 ------------
Category 20,  Topic 16
Message 18        Mon Jun 08, 1992
GDW.SUPPORT [Loren W]        at 20:52 EDT
 
We don't have writer's guidelines yet, Rob, but we are in the process of
formulating our playtesting plans. Frank will be in charge of the starship
combat system (Frank designed that used in the original Traveller).
 Other than that, we have nothing we are willing to let outsiders see.
    Loren Wiseman
 ------------

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4339
Date:     Tue, 9 Jun 92 10:29:24 EDT
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  Rallying the troops for TNE/TDR II

Team TML:  The follwing was gotten from GEnie this morning.  Doesn't
look too good just yet.

Rob

 ------------
Category 20,  Topic 16
Message 18        Mon Jun 08, 1992
GDW.SUPPORT [Loren W]        at 20:52 EDT
 
We don't have writer's guidelines yet, Rob, but we are in the process of
formulating our playtesting plans. Frank will be in charge of the starship
combat system (Frank designed that used in the original Traveller).
 Other than that, we have nothing we are willing to let outsiders see.
    Loren Wiseman
 ------------

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4340
Date:    Tue, 9 Jun 1992 11:21:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: BARANSKI@VEAMF1.NUSC.NAVY.MIL
Subject: TNE Suggestions

I'm excited to hear that GDW is planning a revision of Traveller, and they are
(somewhat? remains to be seen) interested in our input.

I wish I could go into details, but here's my basic two cents worth for the
moment:

Vehicle Design:  use real world units, it makes reality checking a lot easier.
Use a realistic building block approach where each component has a fuel, power,
size/weight, etc.  None of this 'power plant code dependant on hull size' stuff.
Use a compatible system for all vehicles.  Allow for multiple power plants,
etc.

Conversely: try to simplify the MT Vehicle data used in play; I still find it
unreadable.


Computers should have power, size/weight, Cpu, Memory, Storage, IO, Display &
Senser/Input ratings.  Or maybe just Input=Workstation_Input+Sensor_Input and
Output=Workstation_output+Systems_control_output.

TL:  I'm somewhat disenchanted with Earth Based single digit Tech Level
assessments.  This does not describe realistic situations where you have a
camel chase with lasers being fired.  Perhaps a TL rating for each important
TL aspect of a society would be feasible?  

Base the TL code on certain technologies IE:

   Weapon Systems: 0=Bare Hands, 1=Wood&Rocks, 2=Metal&Wood, 3=Siege Engines,
   4=Early Firearm, 5=Modern Firearm, 6=Laser, 7=Gauss, 8=Plasma, 9=Particle,
   10=Meson...

   Power Systems: 0=Biological,1=Fire, 2=External Combustion, 3=Internal
   Comnbustion, 4=Turbine, 5=Solar, 6=Fission, 7=Fusion, 8=Anti-Matter

   Transport:  0=Biological, 1=Wind, 2=Wheeled EC, 3=Wheeled IC, 4=Lighter Then
   Air, 5=Heavier Then Air, 6=Subsonic, 7=Supersonic, 8=Orbital, 9=Planetary,
   10=Stellar, 11=Interstellar

   Armor:  0=Natural, 1=Metal Personal, 2=Metal Vehicle, 3=Hardened,
   4=Composite, 5=Environmental, 6=Radiation, 7=Point Defense, 8=Magnetic
   Screen, 9=Nuclear Damper, 10=Meson Screen, 11=Black Globe, 12=Force Field,
   13=Stasis

   ...

I realize I'm getting carried away here, but you could also add another layer
of description:

   Organization:  0=Personal, 1=Animal, 2=Vehicle, 3=Combined Technology,
   4=Vehicle Mounted, 5=Portable, 6=Long Arm, 7=Hand Weapon, 8=Vessel, 9=Fleet

You could have a O3T4P5 with a W7P4O5 and W6P4O4A7!

Just a few scatter brained thoughts... got to go!

Jim.


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4341
Date:    Tue, 9 Jun 1992 11:48:52 -0500 (CDT)
From: LTG3878@SUMMA.TAMU.EDU
Subject: Jump Drives revisited.

Some of you may recall my article to TML nightly some weeks ago on the
component parts that constitute a Jump Drive.  I have changed certain things
in this version of the article:  all volumes are in kilolitres, the cost of
the high-yield power plant has been increased to reflect that of normal power
plants (necessitating a decrease in the cost of energy sinks), and the weight
of the components is now specified.  The breakdown of the jump drive into
components is based on DGP's Starship Operations Manual, vol. 1.
 
A Jump Drive is composed of a:
Jump Governor - a dedicated computer expert system and accompanying connections.
The governor finely regulates the transfer of energy from the Jump Power Plant
to the Energy Sinks, and from the Energy Sinks to the Lanthanum Hull Grid.  The
size of the governor is dependent only on ship size, not jump performance.
 
Lanthanum Hull Grid - a grid of Lanthanum wires implanted in the outer layer of
the ship's hull, spaced at about 1 meter intervals.  For design purposes, the
grid is assumed to occupy no volume (it displaces part of the hull armor), no
weight (it weighs as much as the armor it displaces), and its cost is computed
as Cr1,480 times the total ship volume in kilolitres.  The cost of the grid is
dependent only on ship size, not jump performance.  Installation of a Lanthanum
grid does not alter the hull armor rating.
 
Energy Sinks - extremely efficient sinks of energy.  These accumulate the energy
produced by the Jump Power Plant, to later release it rapidly into the hull grid
during the jump process.  The sinks hold 650 MW per kilolitre of sink.  20% of
the energy is released gradually to 'warm up' the jump grid, then the remaining
80% is dumped into the grid to enter jump.  According to Book 5:  High Guard, it
is possible to install additional energy sinks (e.g. for a Black Globe).  These
additional energy sinks cost Cr296,000 per kilolitre, but are otherwise the
same as Jump Drive energy sinks.
 
Jump Power Plant - a fusion power plant tuned for maximum energy production, at
the expense of inefficient fuel use.  I have specified 3 mton/kl as a nice
average weight for such a power plant, which will produce the same total Jump
Drive weight as in the Referee's Manual.
 
                       Jump Drive Component Table
 
                                 Percent of Hull
Component________________________Volume_Occupied____Weight_____Cost(Cr/kl)
Jump Governor                           1%         2 mton/kl     74,000
Lathanum Hull Grid                      --*           --**        1,480***
Energy Sinks                       0.5% X Jump #   1 mton/kl    245,000
Jump Power Plant/Hull Radiators    0.5% X Jump #   3 mton/kl    200,000
 
Weight:  stated as metric tons per kilolitre of component.
Cost:  stated as credits per kilolitre of component, except for the Lanthanum
Hull Grid (see the ***).
 
*the Lanthanum Hull Grid has no effective displacement because it is assumed
that the grid is implanted in the outer hull.
**the Lanthanum Hull Grid has no effective weight because it is assumed to
have the same weight as the hull armor it displaces.
***the cost of the Lanthanum Hull Grid is computed as Cr1,480 per kl of total
ship volume.
 
e.g. 1.  a UCP 100 Starship has a Jump-2 drive.  This can be broken down into:
 
Component________________________Volume______Weight_____Price(Cr)
Jump Governor                    13.5 kl     27 mtons     999,000
Lanthanum Hull Grid                --           --      1,998,000
Energy Sinks                     13.5 kl   13.5 mtons   3,307,500
Jump_Power_Plant/Hull_Radiators__13.5 kl___40.5 mtons___2,700,000
Total Jump Drive                 40.5 kl     81 mtons   9,004,500
 
In other words, exactly the same total displacement and weight, and essentially
the same cost as stated in the Referee's Manual! (No accident, of course).
 
e.g. 2.  a UCP 400 non-Starship has a Lanthanum Hull Grid installed.  This will
add Cr7,992,000 to the total cost of the vessel.  Compare this to the cost of
the SDB on p. 85 of the Imperial Encyclopedia.  This will add 2.1% to the cost
of the vessel (factoring in the 20% discount for a standard design).  Note
that the vessel is still considered a non-Starship, because it is still
dependent on its jump shuttle to enter jump (see Seeker Gaming System's 'System
Defense Boat & Jump Shuttle' deckplans for the stats for the jump shuttle.
 
Perhaps the more important change is that in Space Combat.  Since the effect
Jump -n on the damage tables can be attributed to damage to the Lanthanum hull
grid (albeit damage so extensive that this result is located on the Interior
Explosion chart), the above mentioned SDB can now suffer this damage in combat.
This effect is difficult to attain, so that the Battle Rider concept still
makes sense.  See Traveller's Digest #16, pp. 42-43 for a more extensive
discussion of this.
 
e.g. 3.  The above mentioned UCP 400 SDB is normally capable of Jump-1 when
mated with its Jump Shuttle.  In combat, the SDB suffers the result Jump -1.
The SDB/Shuttle Combination can no longer jump together.  Of course, the
Jump Shuttle can still mate with another, undamaged, SDB, or jump by itself.
Damage to the SDB results in no reduction in performance for the jump
shuttle.
 
As an interesting side note, it is possible to determine that the energy
required to enter jump is 2.6 MW X Jump # per kl of vessel (see DGP's Starship
Operations Manual, vol. 1, p. 13, and the Referee's Manual, p. 95).
 
Suggestions for the future:  those of you who like this breakdown of the Jump
Drive into components may want to ponder the following ideas:  scrapping the
3 mton/kl for Jump Drive power plant and using the stats for normal power plants
in the Referee's Manual; using the superior performance of higher-tech power
plants to figure out the relative 'charge up' times to enter jump (i.e. a TL 15
power plant should charge up its energy sinks faster than a TL 12 Jump Drive);
altering the hull armor rating of a vessel with a Lanthanum grid; determining
the weight and volume of a Lanthanum grid; and other things I hope to address
in a future article.
 
Any suggestions are welcome.
 
                                Lewis Taylor Goss

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4342
From: christofer bertani <chrisber@gorn.echo.COM>
Subject: Another Silly Vehicle?
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 14:03:42 PDT

	Along the Silly Vehicle thread, I dug up an old design (originally
Striker, later translated to MT) of a tank (I'm not sure tank is a 
strong enough word :-) heavily derivative of Michael Moorcock's _The_Land_
_Leviathan_.

CraftID:  Land Leviathan, TL5, Cr 55,757,200
Hull:     (630/1575) Disp=600, Config=7USL, Armor=40A
          Turrets=32%, Unloaded=15,800.4tons, Loaded=18,420.9tons
Power:    (18/36), Internal Combustion=99MW, Duration8.3/25
Loco:     (63/126), Tracks, Road=15kph, Off-Road=1.5kph
Comm:     Radio=VDist(50km)
Sensors:  Radio Jammer=VDist(50km), Headlights*75
Off:                     Pen       Max       Auto Dng
               Ammo Rnds Attn Dmg  Range     Tgts Spc  Sig  ROF
30cm Gun*40    HE    900  32   38  Dist(11km)     50   H    1/2
12cm Gun*80    HE  3,200  18   16  Dist(7km)      25   M     12
MMG*100        - 100,000  3/3   3  VLong       3       H     80

Def:      It's just too awe-inspiring...
Control:  Computer=0, Panel=Basic Mechanical*13,607
Accom:    Crew=271 (Cmd=37,driver=1, engr=1, maint=1, gunners=220,
          steward=9, medic=2) Seats=Adequate*271, Env=Basic Env
Other:    Fuel=960kl, Cargo=630kl,
          ObjSiz=Large, EMLevel=Faint


The original Striker Version had a much bigger crew (more realistic - a 
15" gun in a turret ought to require more than a one person crew), and
room for staterooms, bunks, a battalion aid station.  Plus in Striker
I had to design it from the top turret downwards, not just lump all the 
turrets into one figure.  Oh yes, I mustn't forget the telephone
switchboard from Striker, and the fact that each turret had a fire-
control officer in addition to all the guncrews (he had the telephone for
that turret).  The one thing I like in the MT design is the 13,607
control panels.  It makes sense that someting this big should use almost
60% of the hull for machinery. 

Finally, the original description;
        "It was a ziggurat of steel.  Tier upon tier it rose, utterly dwarfing 
the assembled machines which had already landed.  []  On the topmost turret 
(the smallest on the metal pyramid) were mounted four long-snouted guns, on the 
second turret down there were six such guns, on the third there were twelve, on 
the fourth there were eighteen.  On the fifth tier could be seen banks of 
smaller guns, perhaps a third of the size of the others, for use in close-range 
fire.  There were about thirty of these.  On the sixth tier down were some 
fifty similar guns, while on the seventh and bottommost tier were upwards of a 
hundred of the most modern steam Gatlings, each capable of firing a hundred and 
fifty rounds a minute.  []  There were grilled observation ports in every tier, 
and each turret was capable of swivelling independently of the others. "
        "It was truly a symbol of the final war, of Armageddon!  A leviathan 
released upon the land, a monster capable of destroying everything in its  
path, a steel-clad, gargantuan dragon bringing roaring death on all who 
resisted."
		(_The_Land_Leviathan_, by MIchael Moorcock)

Chris Bertani			chrisber@cco.caltech.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4343
Date: 09 Jun 92 23:22:20 EDT
From: bryan borich <70541.1410@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: GDW reply

Item    3888463                 92/06/09        21:08
From:   GDW.SUPPORT                     Loren K. Wiseman
To:     B.BORICH                        Bryan J. Borich


Mr Borich,
     Please forward this to the TML folks:

Gentlebeings:

    We'll take input from anyone, but I do have to ask you to remember
a couple of things:
 1) The basic mechanics are those used in Twilight: 2000/Dark Conspiracy.
We'll be adding a lot of new stuff (obviously...neither Twilight nor
Dark Con deal with some of things we'll have to cover), but we have
a system that works and we are unwilling to reinvent the wheel.
you want most to see in the new rules? What should we leave on the
typesetting room floor?

 2) We're not looking for outside design work. All of that is being done
in-house, primarily by Frank Chadwick and Dave Nilsen.

 3) Scott is absolutely right: we don't want to hear from 300+ people
each with 4-5 meg of documents for us to read. Brevity is most important.

       Loren Wiseman
=END=


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4344
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Micellaneous
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 6:29:18 MET DST

"Lord Krieg" writes:
> How about:
> - -The people of the Imperium discover that Strephon actually spent the
>past 6  years in the shower, and they all die of heart attacks
>simultaneously?

Come on now. That they should all have heart attacks _simultaneously_ is
nearly as unlikely as the virus.

And Christofer Bertani writes:
>
>       Along the Silly Vehicle thread, I dug up an old design (originally
> Striker, later translated to MT) of a tank (I'm not sure tank is a
> strong enough word :-) heavily derivative of Michael Moorcock's _The_Land_
> _Leviathan_.

Next someone will be figuring out the stats for Ogres and GEV vehicles.
(Or BOLOs if you don't want to infringe on Steve Jackson Games' copyrights).



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "A  subsector  official  pompously states that the
        subsector  armed  forces  have  four Kinunir class
        ships in service,  each with enough troop strength
        to put down any military operations that threathen
        the peace of the Imperium."

                        ---Adventure 1, The Kinunir

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

